Platoon

The Twins mediocrity was not accidental. The Twins for years were run by TR in concert with Pohlad as a bottom line business. Every move or action they took was made with the intent to make things look like they were going in a positive direction, but at the least possible expense. Safe experienced veterans, with some name recognition, and past their prime. Good marketing moves, poor baseball moves. This was a P&L team. I don't know if that will modify or change, but it seems to have this last winter. That's where I hope this rebuilding of the system is taking us. If it doesn't, we are falling into the old, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"!

You can't rebuild a MLB farm system in two years, and get much help on the big club. But you can build a foundation, which they do seem to be doing. I do agree with the posters on the "Belisle" type moves. They seem to have brought up an awful lot of dead weight. It would be nice to know the rational for this. The problem I have is that if they can figure out that Royce Lewis has great potential, and that Sano cannot play baseball at 300 lbs., then I assume they can figure out that Matt Belisle is not a bull pen savior. So what gives?

It was fun to watch. KC defense was exceptional last night. Without several outstanding plays, the drama would have been over much sooner. What was funny was you could see he know it was in his grasp by the sixth inning. He was very demonstrative. Sadly, you could almost feel the walk coming in the ninth. I bet he was gripping the ball so tight you could have found indentations from his fingers on that last pitch. Kudos to the Twins for making this such an interesting evening!

It would have been almost impossible for any baseball team above the D2 level to lose to KC last night. Did u say 7 walks? And how many lousy plays? Since I don't have time to post this three times this will have to suffice. (3)

This is what happens when yourj manager tries to make square pegs fit round holes. I never considered Polanco a MLB SS, but I do consider him a MLB hitter. To paraphrase a different post in another thread, 'you cannot have a competitive MLB team with Jorge Polanco as your SS'!

I fully agree! Consistency is what made Dozier so valuable. :)

I am a huge Buxton fan and believer in his ability.but frankly if he doesn't stop running into fences and sliding hands first he is going to keep getting hurt. He is an elite CF'er as is obvious. But his major flaw is he seems never to have learned how to "find" the fence and jump. Hitting it at 23 mph just isn't that smart, nor healthy. As to bringing him up and then offering an extension, I think he made it clear earlier in the year he wasn't interested in extensions, or getting years bought out.? On one other point, I do wish EE was still here, but I fail to see exactly what we "did" to him and Dozier that was so horrific. It was the trade deadline, we weren't good, those are the kinds of players you move. Not an Andrainza. Besides, BD couldn't get out of here fast enough, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a speeding ticket on the way to the airport?

Polanco is not, nor ever was, in anyone's mind but MOY a MLB SS. Yes he can play SS, but only in this context: If your SS is Jorge Polanco, you do not have a good baseball team! I hope if he moves to second base, and has a little more time, and a little less stress on the throwing aspect, he can suffice. I think he will hit well enough. One other troubling aspect, which btw seems to inflict all Twins IF'ers, is the inability or lack of desire to battle a crappy throw to a base. They don't get an error, but they also don't get an out. Lots of matador attempts on that type of play.

I am having a very hard time understanding the Cave/Buxton/Field comparisons. Yes Cave is having a nice run, with I think as someone has posted a 31% SO ratio. And several balls rolling to the CF fence. Field? So far his calling card has been the ability to run out to LF, and back. Buxton has a Platinum glove and some MVP votes. Let's simplify this. Let's put all 3 on the trading block this winter. Then let's see what the other 31 GM in MLB offer for each. I will be taking bets on Platoon@TD.com

I think the tenor of this topic may be more who will be able to make the Twins, someday, a truly competitive team? Jake Cave may contribute to that in a small way. But that chance will not evolve without Buxton reaching his ceiling. And since there is no empirical data that Jake Cave is a fool, he knows that more than anyone. Molitors comments likely fall into the depth and category of Gardy's bilateral weakness one.

Ted, while I appreciate your passion on this, I don't think the sky is actually falling here. Part of being an excellent MLB player is staying on the field. Frankly Buxton has not been able to do that, even in MiLB. These 13 games would have long ago disappeared without all his injuries. No, they are not all his fault such as the toe and migraine, but running into walls and sliding hands first are. He has to learn to take care of his body, or as a speed valued player his value will diminish well before those control years are up. I do think he has special talents, and I do agree the whole season could have went differently in all areas. But I do think this is the best avenue left for the Twins to pursue. One thing would have been nice though. Molitor could have simply not touched on the subject. Suggesting that Buxton is not the likely center fielder next year gives one of two impressions. Molitor wanted to get a specific hurtful dig in on Buxton, or Molitor has finally confirmed he doesn't know know a quality baseball player when he has one on his roster. Frankly, and sadly, in Molitors case either or both is possible.

I read Bernadinos column. To quote, "Jake Cave has opened some eyes in centerfield". He has mine. He has some decent power if and when he hits the ball. He makes amazingly bad judgments on diving for balls, runs mediocre routes, has an average arm, and plays hard. Sans Buxton, you could easily improve the OF by moving Rosario to RF, Kepler to CF, and Cave to LF. What Jake Cave is, isn't even a CF'er on this years version of the Twins, not to speak of a CF'er on a competitive MLB team.

There is no conceivable reason Austin should not hit every day for the rest of the year. LH, RH, or ambidextrous pitchers notwithstanding. I don't even care where he plays, but some OF time wouldn't hurt. Giminez should play only after Garver gets kicked out of game, and Astudillo has a broken right arm. Anything over that is wasted AB's. (Edit this to include Field alongside Giminez on the bench)

>>>>>>>>>>. THIS was how the owner's plan was supposed to go in the Major League movie. I saw that one already. It was much more entertaining." Love the reference, but just cannot get the thought of a cardboard cutout of Jim Pohlad in the locker room out of my head!

When Cave is playing his best and Buxton is playing his worst, Jake Cave is a better offensive player. When Jake Cave is playing his best and Buxton is simply average there is no difference offensively. With both at their best offensively Cave doesn't have a prayer. It's a floor ceiling issue. As for defensively, I won't even bother to debate that question.

Even by Molitors "standards" this was a weird game. First of all, what happened to Molitors legendary respect for the game? Giminez at first? Then pitching? Not sticking up for his pitchers? The lineup seemed to be purposely inept, even by Twins standards. It was a considerable coincidence that a veteran like Belisle hit Beltre, and I don't believe in coincidences. Between the quick thumb for Belisle and for Reed Molitor should have made enough of a stink to get tossed also. Something just doesn't seem right. For being so legendarily competitive, Molitor has become basically a zombie in the dugout. Does he know he is done after the year, or are these bizarre lineups and bland behavior his way of making a statement to the FO? Or both?

I am a firm believer that Buxton will end up a defining player in the Twins future, as I still think his talent will show through. So there are parts of me that want to see him play and develop ASAP, and those that want to keep the year of ST. The current FO approach does both. But at what cost? The wrist issue is being under played here. Is it legitimate? Is it FO deflection? IF it is legitimate and Buxton is not completely healthy I can see the FO feeling some justification in him being withheld a year of ST. Just keeping him on the MLB roster to burn this month if he really can't swing effectively isn't a sound business decision. And MLB is a business. Yet the fan side of me says I would rather see him play now. Btw, Jake Caves playing time isn't an issue for me. Jake Cave is a fourth OF type, with more power than one would expect and a little less defense than one would expect. He has had a pretty lengthly audition, and I doubt the FO needs further info on him. But the biggest reason is his ceiling isn't making or breaking any team. Buxton on the other hand is a player who is a key piece in the teams future. If he doesn't fulfill both his inherent talent and frankly his hype, their is little chance for this team to ever reach the peak that Sano and him onetime dangled so enticingly in front of us. He can/could be that good. That's what makes this decision different than the Caves of MLB. Reverse Cave and Buxton and no one would have cared if Cave left four years from now in a hissy fit, or if he came up and burned that year. While I have went back and forth on this issue, I have came to the conclusion that forced to make the decision myself, I would make the same one. But there is a qualifier herein! If the FO is willing to make such a hard core business decision regarding this issue, I fully expect to see it continue forward in that vein of practices. Meaning, cleaning up the 40 man roster, and further improving the field staffs of all the teams. Moving sacred cows on and off the field. Someone, somewhere, or possibly all over the orginisation is NOT teaching the appreciation of fundamentals to these players. The orginisation has been littered with the likes of brothers of players. Sons of managers. And a seemingly endless stream of "special assistants"? While that doesn't preclude them from being good baseball minds, it doesn't necessitate it either. Lastly, four years hence? Buxton becomes the star that is possible, and I envision? What then? Will the CBA remain the same? Will the financial situation of MLB and the entertainment industry in general remain as it currently is? No one knows. What we do know is that most players will take the best deal for themselves and their families, just as we would. For family reasons we and even some players may give a discount? That said, Byron Buxton is not Joe Mauer, there will not be either a hometown discount or a familial tie to this area. He will likely follow the money. Many consider him the heir to other Twins center fielders. In that context all one has to do to consider Buxtons likely actions in four years is see Hunter, Torii. He was adored here, he expressed a similar adoration for the local fans, and then he followed the money right out of town. MLB is a business, for both the owners and the players.

It appears from LEN that Falvey acknowledges that service time is an issue, and that they will have to invest in the relationship in the future. Almost seems like a "we will make it up to him" is part of the discussion? This is sort of a confusing one. I doubt the lack of AB's this fall will make or break him. I doubt he is totally healthy from the sounds of it. He is likely getting "screwed" out of a year of service time. The handling of his toe issue was ridiculous. Some of the issues are on him, such as performance and his penchant for getting injured. There are a lot of moving peices here. While I can't imagine the relationship being fully repaired, I doubt any of us will be in the room when an attempt is made. Does this cost the Twins in the long run? Buxton alone will determine the long term effect of this decision. From here on he holds the cards. Perform at an elite level, and the team will beg forgiveness. Perform at his current level, and service time will be the least of his, or the Twins problems!

If this is redundant I apologize, but this is LEN3 take on it. By far the most opinionated I have saw from his pen. http://www.startribune.com/twins-postgame-what-game-byron-buxton-isn-t-coming-up-let-s-discuss-that/492278811/

According to the Strib the decision is to send Buxton home when the Rochester season ends. While I can see this as a motivational tool, I can also see it as a way to gain another year of control. In fact it could be both. But the bottom line is the handling of Buxton and his career this year have been on of the most confusing I have seen in quite awhile. From being so important that he needs to play with a broken toe, to not getting called up in September, is pretty much the far edges of a very large spectrum!

i can see an incomplete grade. Falvine was left with a mess. I totally agree with the posters who view Ryans tenure as an effort to stay "middlin"! I think this FO will not use that as a long term approach. I also agree with the disappointment in who were the first call ups yesterday. Good grief. Now I know callups have to be on the 40 man, so the list is in essence only 15 players deep. Some of the players I would like to see get wet feet aren't on that list. Maybe the 40 man roster needs addressing. It certainly doesn't seem to include enough player that will improve the 25 man next year. What I do fear is that if Stewart and Gonsalves are representative of what we consider top MLB pitching prospects, what do those that we don't bring up look like? That said, I would rather lose while sorting out our MiLB depth, or lack thereof, than lose while providing a home for the Belisles, Wilsons, and Drakes of baseball. That would indicate a process. The aforementioned three simply make me think the FO is kowtowing to Molitors veteran preferences.

The Twins are playing sloppy baseball. That's not an illusion or a metric. They are playing baseball that would be sloppy at any level. Sloppy = Throwing to wrong bases, missing cutoff men, standing at third holding the ball with the bases loaded and a confused look on your face, poor efforts catching throws on tag plays, running into outs all over the base paths, chasing fly balls into fences and watching the carom go flying past you, running over singles into doubles. I could go on. I won't begin to touch on the lost at bats the hitters seem to incur. All of these issues have been touched on to all of these players since at least high school ball. They know what to do, they don't do it. They don't seem to give a semblance of thought beforehand to the situation. Situation = runner, score, inning, etc. these aren't teaching moments at this level, they are disciplinary moments at this level. With the added benefit that no one loss will matter due to someone sitting for awhile to refocus, it's a perfect time to set an effort level for play. Nothing in either rosters, lineups, or reactions to endlessly unmotivated effort seems apparent. Most of that's on Molitor. It doesn't take talent to know who a baserunner is or what the score is. It simply takes some interest in the game you are playing. Currently this bunch doesn't express that, or the effort to get to that point. While Molitor may have exhibited great situational awareness as a player, he has not been able to translate the need for that quality to his players.

Remember in tennis the lines NEVER move. The strike zone has 4 sides. Two of which change every time another hitter walks up to the plate. Some one, likely a human, will have to set the up and down due to his vision/version of where a point somewhere below the knees and midpoint on the chest is. That still will leave discretion to a human. I would imagine that it will be more consistent, as would replaying every foul and penalty in football.

Several comments: All sports involve adjusting to what an official accepts that day. And yes I know the strike zone is more defined than some rules are, but it is never the less called by a human. As are helmet to helmet hits, and touch fouls. Which technology would allow each and everyone to be reviewed. This isn't tennis, there is no visible line that a ball touches when it crosses the plate. Garver really was a butcher last night. You can't catch the ball continuall going away from the zone in MLB. So many pitches are borderline at this level, you have to give the guy behind you a chance to call it a strike, and not look like a fool. And yes, if the low low strike isn't being called, try and move it up a notch. I think Mauer leads the team in several offensive categories? And plays elite defense at first base. I remember many espousing RG when he was the king of the base on balls? And couldn't catch a cold in the OF? My personal take on Mauer is I wish he would retire for his health and family. But if he wants to come back, he should. Once the Twins solve all their other problems, lousy base running, mediocre defense, substandard catching, an inconsistent BP, and terrible hitting with RISP, then they can address Mauer, and have the luxury of an Austin type 3 outcomes defenseless hitter at 1B.

I would rather it be Magill than Belisle. But I do think that some of this is accumulated angst. Twins FO types have been dumpster diving for years. I know lots of teams do it, sign, try, and release. Maybe it's just me, but it seems ours are expected to be middle of the BP reliable fill ins? I on the other hand think they should be hig margin inning eaters. But maybe that's just me?