Jham

The truth is usually somewhere inn the middle, but posters and media keep pushing this narrative without looking at the actual evidence. Buxton was not sent to the DL with a new injury. Hee could habe been optioned instead of DL'd if the main consideration were service time over playing Buck. The rehab scenario you complained of could have easily occurred earlier when he went down with a migraines the first time. If you think the team was planning on Buxton NOT bring an integral part of the team this year, you are a different sort of crazy. You can make your point for Buxton without inventing conspiracy theories. Was service time eventually the main factor? obviously. Was manipulating service time plan A B or C this year, or for 3 years like you said? Sorry, no way. Buck has had a hugely frustrating year. The service time issue want the Sunday, merely the cherry on top. Winning cures everything. If the team is good next season and Buxton is playing well, the relationship with the FO will heal itself.

Ok. So it could be piggy back start, 2 days rest, available in pen. I'd send 1 down immediately and replace the other on day 6 (or earlier if you need fresh arms). Repeat with fresh arm(s), and recycle on day 11. So (up to) 10 up, 10 down. Negates having a designated long man or 5th starter and provides additional pen strength since usually your 5th starter is not available. You trade some Romero innings for Stewart innings. But have a more effective Romero who can come in in a traditional relief role days after the piggy back. Prevents over work by providing fresh arms and protecting against short starts by planning for them and always having a fresh arm available.

7 days right? That's why planned call up waves make sense to me. rotate in, over, and out on a set schedule. You have to have deep interchangeable AAA options with options as well as option slots available in the pen or rotation as well. This would have been a prefect year for the Twins to employ this. We didn't really have a 5th starter or set long reliever. Schedule a piggy back pen game instead of struggling auditions. Mediocre starters often end up as relievers anyhow. Slegers into Littel. Gonzo into Mejia. Romero into Duffey. This also allows use of Curtis, Reed, Vasquez, Moya and Boozy in rotation. If anyone sticks, adjust. Overworked? replace. Makes available options very valuable. why not utilize add much of your 40 man as the rules allow?

It makes prefect sense when explained, in theory. Time to run the EA sports simulator! I get that top of the first inning 1 is automatically an opportunity to bring in your guy in a tie game to gave the opposing offenses' best. But if you score 4 in the first, might you be better saving your opener? And if it's about the third time through, isn't that all relative as well? Like the bottom of the order that are hypothetically auto-outs trip 1 are for sure going to be worse trip 3 than the top 3 trip 1? If not, shouldn't the opener be saved until that 3rd trip where you may or may not even need him (chief theory)? just have a manager capable of counting to 9 twice. I think the correct use may be to just string together a couple mediocre guys to equal 1 average inning eater... Which brings me to my next question: why don't teams exercise options regularly to effectively stretch your roster? The Twins regularly call up a fresh pen arm after extra inning affairs or particularly rough stretches. why not a regular rotation of guys with options? You have them, exercise them! Maybe just give your rotation an extra day rest every once in a while. Keep the farm system engaged and connected. We've had a plethora of seemingly interchangeable arms that occasionally rotate up. some frequently, some not at all. I mean why wait till the pen is overwhelmed instead of trying to keep everyone fresh?

I made that exact point about Buxton and Sano previously. I hope Buxton comes back next season and hits angry like Dozier did (and still agreed to buy out arb years and wanted an extension). That said, your old school disciplinarian approach doesn't work for all, especially today's youth. Not everyone is motivated the same way. I have no idea what motivates Mr. Gordon. I'm not talking about giving him a spot or even seeing what we've got. He's a first-rounder with pedigree, tools, and minor league success. There's nothing mediocre about his talent and prospect status. He's bluish chip. The call up, as I stated, would have nothing to do with reward necessarily. I wanted to trade Gordon, but we didn't. So he figures in to our future. A month with the staff and teammates may be just what he needs. If not who cares? He's going back to AAA next spring regardless. In short (too late) his player development trumps rewarding mediocre play in this particular situation, imo.

What a bizzare argument. Both sides make valid points. Neither is wrong. I noticed a few false narratives being pushed some even in the latest Gleeman and the Geek. 1) premeditated service time manipulation. Bonnes even tried to argue that the Twins DLed him to save service time (obviously opposite effect). If you recall, Buck went to the DL initially for a migraine, not a toe. He returned and was bad. We could have optioned him then to save service since he was healthy enough to play. Instead, he went to the DL and aquired service time. In fact, this was a huge risk because of the injury lingered or he had set backs, the service time would have evaporated on the 60 day and the team would lose development and service time. He was later optioned after returning to eligibility but before his rehab was up. Of course, that type of early communication is exactly what was asked of by posters here. 2) Aaron Hicks comparison. This is an odd comp to suggest that the Twins need to bring Buck up. This should be a cautionary tale on why you don't rush players with tools but raw skills. We didn't learn. We rushed Buck, but now we have the opportunity to rectify that mistake and retake some of the time he wasted on the big league roster. Hicks blossomed later. We're trying to learn from that mistake by extending the window in which he'll be a Twin into the years where he's figured out how to hit. 3) His defense will likely never be as good as it was last year (historically good). If he's defense only, service time really isn't an issue. He'll have lost enough go get it by 2022 that an extra year likely won't matter much. So the argument should probably revolve around the hit tool. And as useful as some part time at bats against expanded rosters would be, a full year against starters is better. It has to be right? 4) Loyalty? We drafted him second over-all. Paid the slot money. Pushed his development and arrival. Marketed the heck out of him. Stuck with him and defended him through months of immense struggles while accruing service time, potentially at detriment to a winning team. We actually intended to send him down last year, but Rowson stuck up for his guy and the team relented. Loyalty? Why do we owe loyalty to Buck and not Mauer? Do we really expect Buck will show the Twins loyalty in contract negotiations? He might, but should he? Baseball is about entertainment. Easiest form is winning. 5) Gleeman started that the Twins asked Buck to play hurt. Where did that come from? What a weird thing to do if you're worried about service.

Based on every scouting report I've ever read on him. I've hardly seem him play, but what I saw in spring training, he belongs. Will he ever be good? Who knows. We have invested a lot. I think that was my point? I never said he deserves a call up. I suggested that the kid has had a rough year. Perhaps it would do him some good. Lift his spirits. Give him a positive note into the off-season. He's an important character in the story still at this point.

Didn't Jeffers have a really solid August moving up a level and ranking after adjusting? No errors or passed balls at Cedar Rapids? Like hon. mention for hon. mention maybe? 2nd rounder looking good so far.

Gordon is a future big leaguer. Hee had a rough year. Unless there's an unknown attitude problem, getting him up just for the experience and a handful of at bats would have been useful in my opinion. Vargas could sign a minor league deal depending on what happens with Mauer. At the very least, a call up for an audition and appreciation for 7 years would have shown some class. It seems he's done most everything he's been asked to do. Seems like a good guy. Could have used the major league $$.

Buxton stole an MLB paycheck for 2 months last season. We stuck with him through thick and thin.His track for his injury this year could have bern a DL, rehab, option play very easily but gave him another chance to stick. It worked last year, not this year. He was playing every other game in AAA with the wrist injury. I think people forget how truly awful Buck was BEFORE his toe injury. We burned this bridge with Perkins once, and it turned out good for everyone. Especially the Yankees.

The problem is that I think you already know how that would go as well.

I also wanted the Twins to utilize their waiver order to get a head start on this off-season. we traded for Chris Giminez... Even if he's the manager next season, not what I had in mind.

So... The gamethread has been way more entertaining to follow than the game itself. In the "September" thread, I said I wanted to see the team try a bull pen game in order to evaluate more guys and make cuts. I think Mejia and Moya are redundant. Slegers, Stewart, Littel and Duffey are way different pitchers who get the same crappy results. Romero is a reliever probably?

I think what you're referring to is entitlement or scholarship. I think that has gotten us to trouble in the past. My guess is that Cave and Grossman have some friends on the team. Seeing Buxton get outplayed by those "easily replaceable" guys and still get his spot back might rub some players the wrong way. If Buxton can't appreciate that, then I would have to question his maturity, and I would argue keeping him down to try to teach him a lesson would be even more warranted. A lot has been made of the mistake of trying Sano out in right field. However twins staff was on the record as believing that the move would help him keep his weight under control and be a better overall player, as well as a team first move. Taking Sano's side over others' in the organization might have set back his development. Sure we can try to protect young stars, however we shouldn't coddle them. If Buxton was playing really well to begin the year, I'd agree with you. But he doesn't deserve to play over guys who've battled their tails off all year and outperformed him. Cave could have a better career than Buck. Grossman has to show he deserves a chance to stay on the game.

Well then Cave and Grossman should be treated like family also? They both deserve every at bat for the work they've put in this year. More so than Buxton at this point. Imo.

There is so little risk in keeping Buxton down from a FO stand point. But lose the extra year when the late bloomer reaches his potential and you'll be remembered as a the fool who traded 20 games of crap Buxton for a year of MVP. Byron has no one to blame but his own dismal results for much of 3 wasted seasons for this situation. If he stayed healthy and hit, service time wouldn't be a concern. If he stays healthy and hits, he'll get a fat extension buying out arbitration. Byron Buxton hasn't done enough to suggest that we owe him anything. I think playing him over Cave or even Grossman at this point would be unfair. What free agent would want to play for a team who's willing to replace you with a guy you're badly outperforming? Cave deserves his shot, Grossman has earned his spot for this last month.

Honestly, since when is getting the most out of your players no longer the job of the manager? Sano had to get sent to A ball because of weight. Buxton is.. who knows. Rumors of a toxic club house. He's supposedly the smartest base runner ever, but his team is consistently awful. He knows baseball. He just can't teach it. And he certainly isn't very inspiring.

I don't get how player motivation doesn't figure in somewhere. I know we're not in the locker room. But anecdotal evidence and the little actual evidence we have doesn't paint the best picture for him. Everyone seems to agree that the players have the biggest impact on a game and managerial decisions aren't key. Then motivating your players and getting them to play for each other should be a top priority. I know the players are professionals and should be able to motivate themselves. But they're also people. We are mostly professionals as well and can look at our own experiences with management and teamwork and think about their effect on our own motivation and production. The Twins mostly have a bunch of clock watchers this year. Maybe it's mostly the players, but I'm not going to waste another season hoping it's not the manager, if it were up to me at least.

What's wrong with the Rolls Royce?

I think people mistake performance for value. Young players' value in the trade market often decreases even as their production increases because teams value controllable salary over more expensive options. This is fueled by luxury tax flexibility. The luxury tax penalty accelerates the more consecutive seasons a team exceeds the threshold. However, if you drop below the threshold, even for a season, you get to reset the penalty. Yankees have already reset as have the Red Sox and Dodgers after this year, I believe. Presumably, they're gearing up for Kershaw and Harper deals which may generate some tax consequence but from a new base. Ironically, the tax scheme designed to make the playing field more level has only made the young controllable player which small market ball was based on, more valuable to all teams. negating some of that advantage. The biggest losers, of course, are the mid-tier free agents and perhaps the suckers who signed them.

I want to see the team look truly prepared to compete next season. I want Sano dialed in. I want Buxton shelved like Dozier was before he broke out. I want 2 bull pen game per week where Stewart, gonsalves, Thorpe, Romero, and Mejia take turns. I want to see who can embrace the competition and handle pitching relief. I want to be able to make some hard cuts based on some head to head performance. Mejia or Moya? Stewart or Duffy? Romero, Hilde, or May as closer? I also want the Twins to take advantage of their August waiver position and trade for a meaningful piece prior to the off-season.

I can think of another toolsy outfielder from Georgia with a nice guy demeanor but fiery competitor who might be great mentor for him one day assuming Baddoo doesn't pass him in the minors (3/4ths joking).

No velocity. No plus pitch. No control. Consistently high in the zone. Nothing really outside the scouting report except for the results. Hope that was nerves. u g l y rain delay is his alibi.

Is Gonsalves effectively wild or effectively, just wild? Asking for my wife.

So is Gonsalves proof of good or poor player development? Asking for friend.