Otto von Ballpark

Why top 20? I said I respect the Cards aggressiveness including (among other things) trading a top 50 prospect for Goldschmidt, as compared to the Twins whose current FO has yet to trade a top 100 (maybe even top 200?). I didn't say anything about any top 20 prospects. It seems an unnecessary and confusing qualifier to inject into this discussion.

No, the buyout is $250k. And a buyout isn't any good on its own, it is just a slightly deferred part of the guarantee. An $X buyout is only a good deal if you think the player is worth more than $X above his salary. Do we think Romo's services are worth more than $5 mil in 2020?

Objectivity means not pushing conclusions about a trade before you even know who was traded. Conclusions should be derived from the facts, not the other way around. As for the rest of your post, I have no idea why you keep bringing up prospects the Twins *haven't* traded, in a discussion about prospects the Cardinals *have* traded. If you think the Cards are more aggressive in trades because of their revenue, good for you -- I just think the Twins have room to be more aggressive than we've been, even within our revenue.

Why not look up what they traded before offering conclusions? For Goldschmidt, Carson Kelly was a top 50 prospect, at catcher. I wouldn't call him a spare part. Luke Weaver had graduated but was a recent top 50-70 SP prospect who had shown some promise. Another piece and a competitive balance pick was in the package too. For Holliday, Brett Wallace was #27 by BA at the time. Plus two other recent 1st and 2nd round picks. For a trade deadline rental! They re-signed him after the season. So no, I don't think the Twins could make a comparable package without giving up Lewis or Kirilloff.

How did you figure the $500k? Do you just mean, you expected him to get $4.5 mil on a one year deal this winter? I thought there was at least a chance he'd settle for $2.5-3 mil again like he has the past 3 offseasons, or maybe only bump up to $3.5-4 mil. In which case, the "dibs" for 2021 would be costing you more than $500k. Not that it really matters, it's a pretty trivial amount either way -- I just didn't find the option year to be too noteworthy.

You're just lucky I didn't use a clip from the end of the full sketch: https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/snl-digital-short-the-curse/n12690

Aren't Romo-level relievers available at that price most offseasons? (Or trade deadlines, for that matter?) Romo himself has been available on 1-year deals the past 3 offseasons, at $2.5-3 mil each time, coming off not appreciably different stat lines / peripherals compared to 2019. It's not a bad thing, but I'm not sure the 2021 option at $4.75-5 mil means all that much.

I fully admit that ballplayers are human, and as such can have similar concerns and preferences as the rest of us. (How humane of me to recognize that! ) But it's also important to keep in mind that pro athletes are essentially entertainers, like movie stars or music stars, who usually have different life goals and objectives than the rest of the population, often dating back to childhood. Even the most devoted-to-family entertainers will compromise their commitments to family and location for a few months at a time to go shoot a film on location, or go on tour, etc. All in pursuit of their craft, the competition and respect of their peers, etc. -- and yes, even in pursuit of money as well (which is sometimes how the less tangible goals are measured, in part). That kind of mindset and drive predates the 8-figure salaries, and often lasts beyond them too. That's not to say some entertainers can't be different, or have different priorities. But I'd caution against reading about Wheeler's and Bumgarner's choices this winter and drawing too many parallels to our non-entertainer lives -- as both Philly and Arizona were the high or near-high bidder, I suspect those might be more happy coincidences of the market rather than driving factors behind it. If ballplayers were more truly "like us" in this regard, I suspect we'd see some really wacky contracts -- like someone taking dramatically less to go to a non-contender in a desired location, or to play for their hometown team, etc. But we don't really see that. (The areas where we do sometimes see it, much more than in FA contracts, are in retirement/surgery decisions -- the final transition out of the driven athlete/entertainer lifestyle, for many of these guys. Gil Meche, Brad Radke, etc.)

It's a little more complex with Mauer. I think most fanbases will be critical of a player who isn't viewed as earning his salary, even if they endorsed the signing originally. That's mostly a separate issue from whether the team is spending enough in general, which started cropping up in the Twins Target Field era in 2012 and especially 2013 when Mauer was still good.

Cool thing: Prospectus/Cot's keeps a pretty full accounting of the cash and salaries involved in these deals: https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/52254/jaime-garcia https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/46537/anthony-recker And since Recker was immediately waived and outrighted to the minors after we acquired him, I think it makes sense to include his salary obligation along with Garcia's in the "cash" part of the deal. That leaves us with $4,524,590 salary for Garcia, plus $301,639 salary for Recker, less $100,000 cash from Atlanta, less the prorated minimum of $184,180 that the Yankees paid Garcia. Total Twins outlay is $4,524,590. So I think this is a fair summary: The Twins essentially traded Ynoa plus $4.54 mil for Littell and Enns. (You could add the one start from Garcia, and 1-2 months of Recker stashed in AAA, to the Twins benefit side, if you want to get technical too!)

Let's not accuse fellow posters of bad faith over this. There are a lot of moving parts to these deals, and I think these were both honest mistakes. The Twins sent cash to the Yankees, received (less) cash from the Braves, and received a player likely to be DFA'd by the Yankees (Enns). Edit to add: the cash going from the Braves to the Twins was nominal -- looks like only $100k according to this site: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/twins-acquire-jaime-garcia-anthony-recker.html It was reported that the Twins were taking on the rest of Garcia's contract, so I suspect this money was just to help offset Anthony Recker's contract (he was still due about $250-300k).

Mandatory graphic for Romo posts:

Kevin McAllister? He ran the Twins in 1991? Was this some kind of Home Alone / Little Big League mash-up?

I like Cot's as a resource. They also include a little bit different estimate for the pre-arb group. https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/minnesota-twins/ Their Twins 2020-2024 payroll and tax tracker: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QXhMYkMxJE1VJvZiNMS1X7OHPFNaIVUjd-m1ZBCzHL4/edit#gid=1520401900 They had us at about $101 mil before Romo, but also before deducting Pineda's salary while suspended. So... 101 plus Romo's 5 minus Pineda's 2.4 = $103.6 mil Maybe they have slightly different arb estimates?

$5 mil would represent Romo's highest salary since 2016, which was from a contract he got when he was a closer for the 2014 world champ Giants (2 years, $14 mil for 2015-2016). The last 3 years have been a succession of 1-year deals at 3, 2.5, and 2.5 mil. Obviously, if it's only for one year, being high by 1-2 mil probably doesn't matter all that much. But it does feel a touch high.

You made the subject exclusively about FA acquisitions. Here's the post to which your responded to begin this tangent: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/35827-front-page-twins-front-office-playing-with-patience-this-winter/?p=942060 I don't necessarily agree fully with that poster, but it seems to be talking about aggressiveness in general, and the Cards have been more aggressive than the Twins, and the trades/contracts for Rolen, Holliday, and Goldschmidt illustrate that.

I don't think you read the list: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/35827-front-page-twins-front-office-playing-with-patience-this-winter/?p=942388 You need to address Goldschmidt, Holliday, and Rolen. I don't think anyone cares how the Twins compare to St. Louis in free agent signings that ignores examples like those 3 just because they weren't *technically* free agent signings. Each one was an aggressive trade and contract for a player outside their organization, for which the Twins to my knowledge have zero comparables.

I agree Atlanta and Houston haven't been big FA spenders lately, but "do what it takes to contend" would imply trades as well, and both clubs have shown more aggressiveness than the Twins in that regard. Also in-house extensions too? Plus both franchises have advantages of reputation -- Atlanta dating back to signing Maddux, Houston back to the Randy Johnson trade perhaps?

To be fair, a lot of those same people would also provide some pretty wild info about Philadelphia, or Phoenix.

Maybe we should just share a team with Tampa Bay, like some have proposed for Montreal? If we could merge the current Twins and Tampa rosters, I'd consider it!

You really do need to read the whole thread before posting! But Romero and Gonsalves did register at 50 FV Fangraphs prior to 2018, although I suspect that was more "high floor" for Gonsalves (and so much for the structural integrity of that "high floor"!). https://blogs.fangraphs.com/top-30-prospects-minnesota-twins/ About Romero, they said he "could turn into a power mid-rotation starter or settle near the back of a bullpen." That's not bad, but I think he had more helium hype locally.

He's not that good *anymore*. That was like, what, 3 months ago?

Scherzer, Corbin, Greinke, Morton -- these guys were essentially acquired as aces by non-Yankee playoff teams this year. Verlander probably too -- he was having a 5 WAR season when acquired from Detroit, although he got even better in Houston. Cole was an ace in Pittsburgh at one time before he re-emerged, better, in Houston. Beyond 2019 playoff teams, a guy like Sonny Gray was similarly acquired as a past and future ace; a guy like Stroman might fit a definition of ace too. Bauer's a weaker candidate, although is 2018 season was definitely of ace quality. And this doesn't ease much Twins fan anxiety because the Twins haven't yet "added" any MLB pitching this offseason. (Granted they did re-sign a couple guys, but re-signs feel almost less likely to emerge as aces since they're not changing coaches etc.?) Jon Gray looks almost like a once-and-future ace too, although somewhat masked by pitching in Colorado. Would be mighty cool to get him in trade this winter...

That's fair, although the post to which you were responding referenced Berrios and Graterol as potential aces, as well as possibly Balazovic and Duran. It didn't really name or discuss Smeltzer, Thorpe, or Dobnak. You have to admit, Berrios has better ace potential right now than any prospect name you mentioned ever had. Graterol possibly too (could maybe compare to Stewart on draft day?). Seemed odd to me to bring up guys like Mejia and Gonsalves in response to that. Hopefully that clears up my response.

Twins Daily Sure Bet: Biggest Twins community around! A lot of hard-working writers and commenters, with new content every day, ranging from traditional to analytical, and from serious to fun. Good community events too. Washed Up: Overrun these days with accusations of being Pohlad Pocket Protectors, or by actual Pohlad Pocket Protectors (take your pick). Too-frequent references to uncomfortable subjects like avian flu and Joy Mays. Gardy nickname would be something weird like "Twins Daily-sie". Community events often promote drinking alcohol, which can be damaging to the body.