Otto von Ballpark

Of course, Garver could easily get some starts behind the plate in Minnesota in September, in addition to AFL starts in October...

Wouldn't that actually suggest the Twins have a better shot? If he wanted to stay in Toronto enough to take a hometown discount, we'd pretty much have no chance to sign him -- we'd have to out-bid them by a considerable amount. At least this suggests we could out-bid them slightly and win his services. Not that I endorse it or think it is likely for any number of other reasons, but in theory, the Twins chances at landing a player should only improve the less likely he is to re-sign with his current team.

Good thing nobody is doing that? Doumit and Herrmann were first brought up in this discussion as examples to suggest the Twins were "cutting edge."

Although Moncada's AFL season could be cut short: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/red-sox-promote-yoan-moncada.html Sounds like they might be having him focus on 3B work too. I remember Kubel appearing in September 2004 for the Twins and our playoff series, then going to the AFL to gruesomely injure his knee...

Seth answered above, but the key detail here is that it is not simply "20 days in the minors" -- it is 20 days on optional assignment. And players not yet on the 40 man are not on optional assignment, so any prior days in the minors for them this season do not count toward that number. Berrios used an option this year, because he got added to the 40-man then optioned. But getting added to the 40-man and recalled does not use an option (like Duffey in 2015).

FWIW, Herrmann wasn't often deployed in a flexible arrangement by the Twins. In 2014, he almost exclusively played outfield (1 inning at catcher), and in 2015, he almost exclusively played catcher (2 innings in the outfield, plus 4 at first base). Similarly, Sano wasn't given an additional position -- he was completely moved. Whatever flexibility they gained by giving him an outfielder's glove, they probably lost by simultaneously taking away his 3B glove (although they eventually backtracked on that, shortly before pulling the plug on the outfield idea entirely). Danny Santana has followed a somewhat similar pattern -- setting aside whether it's a particularly new/good idea to have bad players who are position flexible, Santana was almost exclusively an infielder in 2015 (only 3 starts in the outfield), and has been almost exclusively an outfielder in 2016 (only 3 starts in the infield). The Twins positional flexibility arrangements of the last few years have largely been of the "semi-permanent move" or "emergency" variety.

FYI, Garver last year posted a 116 wRC+ in the FSL. Virtually identical to his 118 mark in AA this year. If that earned him his promotion to AAA as you claim, there was definitely a case for him moving up midseason in 2014 or 2015 too.

The idea put forth here is that frequently going over an inning (higher pitch counts) has worn him down, to the point where he is less effective across all of his outings, regardless of length. He's been in the multi-inning role all year, and his ERA has been steadily climbing all year, so perhaps there is something to it. Not that Tonkin is any kind of great pitcher, but there is evidence to suggest we haven't been putting him in a position to succeed to the best of his abilities. Heck, a lot of people here have been endorsing Pressly as a key bullpen cog going forward, and his run prevention has been almost exactly the same as Tonkin's except Tonkin has given up 4 more HR (leading to ~8 more runs overall). I wouldn't be surprised if Tonkin's profile makes him slightly more prone to allowing HR, but his advantage in K rate could be enough to balance that out, assuming he was deployed similarly to Pressly. Probably worth finding out in a lost season, rather than seeing if he can handle long relief -- if we don't see him as anything better than a long reliever, he should probably be dropped from the 40-man this winter, frankly.

The other day I calculated it, when Santana had been on the active roster this season, he was playing at a 409 PA full season pace.

I'm not sure -- which is worse, promoting Schafer because you don't plan to sit Grossman, or promoting Schafer and STILL sitting Grossman?

FWIW, a Palka or Walker recall today would have provided a fine positive story...

The team votes on rookie of the year? Also, "spin on Dean"? The context of the comment was the team's decision to bring May back to the bullpen at the beginning of July. It has nothing to do with Berrios.

I don't think the Twins are "slow promoters" to any great degree, but it is interesting/odd that Garver will turn 26 this winter and might have zero MLB experience (or perhaps just a couple token September appearances, if they do indeed call him up after Rochester's season ends but fail to deal Suzuki). While that may look unavoidable because he started the year in AA, and Garver was a 22 year old college draftee, but we also sent him to rookie league ball at age 22, and then we made him spend a whole season, his age 23 season, at A ball in Cedar Rapids even though he hit quite well the whole year (while at the same time, we pushed Turner to skip that level and not hit so well at high-A and AA). And it doesn't seem like we held Garver back to work on his defense -- in that whole season in Cedar Rapids, he barely caught 50% of his games. Org filler Michael Quesada took significant catching reps from Garver that year, and again the following year at Fort Meyers, before apparently washing out of pro ball by his 26th birthday. And while I don't think Garver is some great prospect, I also wouldn't point to his modest minor league batting lines as evidence that the Twins were wise to hold him back. Adjusted for league, his batting lines have been pretty consistently good-to-great in pro ball, and his K/BB rates have been very good too, suggesting a player who could have been challenged more: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa578988&position=C/DH

The poster referred to Garver's age in the very next sentence, which you blatantly omitted from your quote. You can disagree with him, but don't be dishonest about it.

That wasn't Nick's opinion by late June: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/23013-article-setting-up-for-the-second-half/ Maybe it still was in May: http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins-news/minnesota-twins/trevor-may-is-leading-an-evolving-bullpen-r4673

Some of these, you might not want to count before they hatch. Also, might not want to lead with O'Rourke, the guy who cleared waivers a couple months ago and could be a minor league free agent in a couple months. Also, while this looks like a decent list in absolute terms, how is it in relative terms? I would guess every team in baseball has found and developed a handful of guys who have produced as much as O'Rourke, Tonkin, and Vargas to date. And a guy like Sano probably would have made MLB no matter what organization he signed with. From results it seems pretty obvious that the Twins have not done well at producing MLB talent above their peers recently, hard to argue with that.

The triples were kinda the main reason folks expected Rosario to regress, no? Also, how is Park not a bust? Maybe not top 5, but he has to be a considered a bust for 2016. Even if you think the wrist was a factor, you considered other injury cases as busts. Also, Nolasco only failed to bust because he set expectations so low in 2014-2015. I have to imagine anyone picking him to bust were predicting a continuation of his 2014-2015 performances, which was mostly true.

Would it help if the 21st one was yourself? Only joking -- the system doesn't allow that.

Don't know if you're aware, but TD has that feature: http://twinsdaily.com/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=ignoredusers But I'll try not to give you any more reason to use it!

You can't enjoy an internet message board without learning to look past some of the posts/posters (present company perhaps included ).

I hope the new GM doesn't make a major move like that right away based on the recommendations of the old scouts / front office / coaches that are responsible for producing the current MLB staff.

Correcting myself -- the first time since rookie league in 2013. The larger point still stands, Garver and Turner were not teammates during the 2014 or 2015 seasons.

Maybe Mauer needs to move to Colorado? FWIW, Morneau actually suffered another concussion in 2011 along with various other maladies that year -- check out his injury history at Baseball Prospectus: And by the next year (2012), only 2 years removed from his big 2010 concussion, Morneau's performance had pretty much stabilized around ~107 wRC+ where it has stayed over the past 5 season, with the one exception of his first year in Colorado when he reached a 121. (He's even at a 107 again this year for the White Sox.) Mauer certainly has the talent to have another little spike season like that, regardless of concussion recovery. For a little while it looked like 2016 might be that season, but he will probably need a strong finish now to achieve that.

Actually, they didn't promote them in lockstep. 2016 was the first time Garver and Turner played at the same level, and it really couldn't be avoided -- neither one was ready for AAA to begin the year. In fact, it appears the Twins went out of their way to push Turner a level ahead of Garver. Now, I could see a case for divvying up the catching reps different while they are both in AA this year, and promoting Garver to AAA before August, but those are relatively minor items in the grand scheme of things. As long as one or both of them are getting notable reps in Minnesota for September, it will be hard for me to complain.

Agreed on the former, disagreed on the latter.