flpmagikat

Even if they throw at utley, they still lost their starting ss for at least the rest of the playoffs and who knows after that. I am all ok with the way the pirates dealt with arrieta, considering he was wild and put their players at risk, and took the blowback himself. And in a relatively mild way. That whole fiasco was just terrible, from the slide to the injury(not to mention utley looked like he might've concussed himself in the process), to the just horrible call/rule/whatever that was. Torre seemed ashamed afterwards when discussing the "logic" that went into it. I was just in LA and went to see Grienke pitch last saturday, so like I said i was sorta pulling for them with no real interest in the other teams. But man that sucked.

Hmm maybe its just where I live, fs1 hasnt carried it either. Thankfully I'm more interested in the NL this year, but why have one league so difficult to watch?(for this round at least)

I was half cheering for LA and jesus I hated watching that, especially since the whole "safe, since he was ruled out and it was reversed" led to them winning the game. It doesn't matter if he didnt intend to injure tejada, though barreling into a guy like that with his back to him is cowardly enough on its own. In hockey if you high stick a guy it doesnt help that you didnt mean to, its almost worse because you had no control over what you were doing. Cheap, dirty.

Are they not airing all the games on regular cable? It seems ridiculous that youd have to have mlbnetwork to watch the playoffs...

I've been thinking about how the Twins handle pitchers, especially young guys that have some fire in both their fastballs and in their belly. I know it's not apples to apples, but i see May as being able to have a career like Garza as a starter, or maybe...I don't know, I just keep thinking of the real deal jd and ugh. Anyway don't post much anymore just a sorta thought. Very original.

No, but he's probably the best pitcher I've ever seen(live), besides Johan. He's a hall of gamer. Clutch may be a myth, but some guys just don't get rattled, and he never seemed to. Also, peds and ****, whatever. If those things were going to help anyone, they'd help cal break the iron man record.

Youactually didn't explain those comments or make clear what you were referring to. You actually said you weren't going to, because no matter what you referenced I wouldn't accept it. So there's that. And I took you saying nothing riverbrian has said in this thread is offensive, as nothing being offensive. But you know who posted that thing about being black and from the south basically making you homophobic and how we cant really blame those people? Well I'll let you look that up while you're looking for that hate speech. Or not.

And I would argue none of the points offered up by anyone else are offensive, though you characterized them as hate speech and referred to pseudo's pov as militant. I mean, come on. Someone in this thread basically implied that we can't really criticize hunter because he's black and from the south, and you really want to say that isn't offensive? I'm not going to pretend that it's easy to have a level headed conversation about this for me, but it's pretty disingenuous coming from you, the guy who invents new sides to argue against and won't reply to specific points in like, every thread you get involved in. Or like pseudo said, you just like being a dick.

Lev, maybe it's just your message board persona, but you might be the last person anyone here should take advice from on how to use reason to bring people to your side.

Most people are aware that homophobia is wrong on some level. There are plenty of facts and reason that are used on a macro level to win the minds if not the hearts of the majority of the public. I don't think torii hunter is a hateful person, but that doesn't make what he said any less bigoted. Sorry that word offends you, faggot kinda offends me, but you know, I deal. Anyway when someone who's a public figure says something dumb and bigoted, them getting called out I would argue is effective as they can reflect on what they said or their views and view them in a broader context. I mean, it's not exactly like hunter was getting shouted down in the street or threatened or people asking for him to be reprimanded by MLB. Some people online just pointed out how ridiculous and hypocritical what he said was.

Yeah my point was that Hunter did the opposite of what you're claiming and sort of retracted his remarks, not dug in deeper. My guess would be he'd go out of his way to show just how not a bigot he really is given the opportunity. Fake it til you make it. And I don't consider calling hunter a foolish bigot to be aggressive lashing out.

Well yeah, obviously there's more to winning hearts and minds than just making people feel like asses. But what you and moreso Richard are arguing seems to be trying to reason with irrationality, and never having any bite as its offensive to the people with bigoted views you're trying to reason with. I know the intellectual argument is more honest and meaningful, and sometimes more effective. But you're really downplaying the emotional and real life components to this issue, and really that has been more offensive to me in thus thread than hunters original statement.

Theres a saying that many addicts use, "fake it til you make it." I dont expect anyone to change their deeply held views and bigotry overnight.

You do recall Hunter coming out like the next day and saying he was misquoted or taken out of context, without actually correcting that misquote? Like people tend to do when they're embarrassed or say, ashamed of what they've said.

Pretty good flick, great how Hooper brought the stage to the more in your face screene. Crowe isnt as bad a singer as some reviews suggest.

"you're an idiot and should be treated as such" really isn't the same as "I hate you and you should go away forever". Just what do you think the going away forever means? "Here's the truth, you wouldn't accept anything here as being hateful or out of line because you have so much personal stake that you'd never equate any amount of ugly no matter how equal it may be. So that entire setup is ridiculous" Of course you won't, because you're you, and you blame me for you saying something extremely ignorant. Hate speech against torii! The strawman is no one has said they hate hunter or others that share his view. Or that he should be punished beyond just being exposed as foolish and closeminded. Or silenced. But keep fighting the mean liberals who keep fighting the bigotry and closeminded with sometimes less than polite rhetoric. I mean, someone has to stand up for them.

The hate speech at torii...Jesus Christ. I mentioned violence as, if you're going to compare the "hate speech" directed at Hunter in this thread with hate speech directed at gay people daily, well violence is part of one of those. But to you they're exactly the same, unless you're doing one of those non comparison comparisons made famous by nick in the Gomez/delmon debate of yesteryear. So you know what, you might not like my ugly tone. I don't like the ugly content of the bs you're trying to pass as reason. And I'd much rather get worked up over something that actually personally affects me, even indirectly, than the **** you flip at, like a qb in the nfl. And as far as what you posted to pseudo, I guess I missed the part in the liberal handbook where it says be nice to everyone all the time, and never get angry at people spewing toxic garbage. I deal with actual hate speech from idiots, and idiotic opinions that aren't necessarily hateful from people like hunter pretty ****ing regularly. But it's people like you who claim to be so ****ing supportive of equality and opposed to those harmful views, yet somehow took this thread and made it about the response to closemindedness and hate being the same as the actual ignorant and hate speech, that actually set me off. I'd say show me an instance where someone has said or implied something here so ugly as half the **** you hear almost daily directed at the gay community, but you won't, and I don't even care. No one has said hunter should be punished, reprimanded, harmed. Just made to feel foolish for saying something foolish. But of course, it's the liberals who are at fault for being too mean.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp One is making the statement "dude, you're a dick and you need to stop saying that" versus "dude, I hate you, everybody like you, and you all need to go away forever". One could argue the latter is exactly what is happening to "people like Torii" in the tone of some of the comments here. It's a reflection of something I worry about in society - how ugly the pro-gay movement is in regards to the anti-gay people. Now, in my opinion, anti-gay opinions have no moral value and are ugly in and of themselves, but I fail to see how reciprocating that ugly does anyone any good. "the latter is exactly what is happening to people like torii..." Nope, not equating at all, just saying its exactly the same. I guess I missed the part where people were telling torii he was going to rot in hell an d god hates him and he's an abomination and...

I'm not proposing anything. I think torii hunter is a fool and bigot, and that when fools and bigots speak out confirming as much they can and probably should be called out, and it's not the end of the world. And it isn't at all in any way equal to the specific and general **** i or anyone involved in the lgbt community deals all the time. I don't really care what torii hunter says or thinks, unlike the writer of the article I don't find him at all thoughtful or intelligent, actually quite the opposite. You, however, are disappointing as even as you profess to disagree with that nonsense, you still have to goddamn equate the backlash against that bs sentiment to the actual hate and bigotry that provokes it. And really, you haven't addressed the fact that as far as I know no one has ever been murdered for their bigotry(well maybe not never) Not everything is equal, and no one is trying to suppress those bigoted views, just eradicate them in part by shaming and pointing out just how ridiculous and ****ty they are.

Tell me, just who the **** is bullying the bigots? You mean calling their opinions idiotic and immoral? Oh boo ****ing hoo. I feel no sympathy for someone getting their awful opinion called out. There is no violence perpetrated against these bigots that I'm aware of. So go cry your river for the bigots, and beat your strawmen, and keep patting yourself on your spineless back for taking no stand on something you disagree with. If posts like mine are equal to the problem of hateful bigotry in our society in your opinion, your opinion is bull****. And you have the right to your bull****.

Yeah it's pretty ugly. My heart breaks every time I hear about one of those kids who gets bullied for being a homophobic bigot and ends up taking their own life.

I agree more folks should vote third party. That was my sorta point, that rather than voting for a person, Ron paul in this case, youd be better served voting for someone who is running and at least has a chance at garnering enough support to potentially help that cause or party out in the future. If I only voted for nader or kusinich as a write in rather than supporting say a green party candidate id think its just as foolish. And id say the libertarian party has an actual chance at gaining 5% or more if all their supporters got on the same page.

Ron paul people annoy me. They run around foaming at the mouth about how brain washed and ignorant everyone else must be, but then when it comes time to vote, do the one thing that is basically wasting a vote and write in Ron paul. If they used half that energy to organize and rally around whoever the libertarian candidate is, they as t least have a chance at making some progress for their movement. Instead they are just as if not more guilty of the same idol worship in candidates they decry.

By all means - let's see the basis upon which you have determined the Giants are the best pitching team. Mind you, this also means it should work for last year. The year before. Etc. I look forward to you actually putting in some thought. Jerk my chain? Was the bullpen comment the same? You're posting unresearched stupidity and getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar. I'm basing the assessment of "best" pitching staff on statistics gleaned from the best sample size we have (the regular season). What are you basing it off of? (Cute also, now that it's being pointed out, that 3rd and 4th starters count too. Care to imagine what percentage of regular season team stats is compromised by your top four starters and top four bullpen arms? Which, to help you with the math, is 8 out of likely 11 or 12 spots? Perhaps you should study your careless Jeff Gray remark before you keep arguing that regular season team stats don't matter when you've included those that do matter as being your top four starter and top four bullpen arms. Here's a hint: Team top 8 ERA 3.30 Total: 3.68 Team top 8 ERA 3.17 Total 3.34 Team top 8 ERA 2.99 Total 3.33 Only one of those three teams had a real disparity. In fact, your Giants (even with pulling the filler out), were still not as good in ERA. But by all means, put up or shut up. And don't bring Jeff Gray wins stats into this please. Pretty amusing for you to get haughty about better metrics when you cited the number of wins for Jeff gray in this conversation. What do the reds and nats team eras look like when you take out cueto and stras numbers? Honest question, im on my phone and not that clever. I imagine that .3 gap looks a bit different.

Except that Cincy BEAT the Giants top starters. It was the backend of the rotation that helped lead them saving that series and then Cain finished it off. I'm saying it's not as simple as saying "best pitching wins", because that clearly isn't how it plays out. And dismissing team stats as a way to maintain that argument makes no sense. Stl beat a team with better pitching. Hell, they beat another team in the wildcard with better team starting pitching. (Again, a case were the top rotation guys did not pitch the key games) Fair enough. I guess when I look at the team pitching stats for the regular season, the giants would be fourth out of the 5 nl teams in the post season. Atlanta lost, and the reds and nats lost their top starters. I guess my only point was the team with the best pitching overall is having the most sucess. Some luck, but I dont think thats a fluke(not that you implied that)