TwinsDr2021

Not to be negative, but does trading those not guaranteed to be here in 2023, guarantee a new window of 23/24? What happens if Barnes/Duran/Winder/Balazovic/Dobnak/Ober all end up being bullpen arms (the odds say that most if not all will)? Then they will still be looking at 25/26 and the FO will be looking for new jobs. The FO put this themselves in this position by not fully going for it the last few years, selling a rebuild to the fans would have been WAY easier if they would have traded some of top prospects in a real attempt to win the last few years, but they didn't because they were going to be the next wave of players that kept the winning going, and now giving up on those same prospects seems inexcusable. I say screw trading Buxton, Berrios, Rogers and Donaldson. I say package up Cruz and Miranda or Rooker if a team gives you a fireballing relief pitcher that can help next year. Trade larnach and Lewis to the Marlins for Sandy Alcantara or something similiar to another team (cubs seem to be talking about a sell off maybe pry Kyle Hendricks away from them with prospects. Sign Rondon, and a couple of relief pitchers. If it doesn't work, sell off next trade deadline, they would have a crap ton to trade, and at least they can say to the fans we went for it.

Never could figure out why anyone thinks spreading negativity is a good idea. Of course, it requires none of the skill or wisdom it takes to come up with finding solutions. The solutions are also much more interesting to discuss.

Not trying to argue, but this is the 4th (actually 3+) season Duran has been in the Twins organization and hasn't helped the Twins yet. IMO trading Buxton and/or Berrios for players the fans won't see for 3-4-5 years is not a winning combination, it absolutely might be the right thing to do to compete is 2025 and beyond, but removing two of the most popular players for that far away will not sit well with the fans and probably re-enforce that they are just cheap arses. I will say this; IMO he is a top Twins prospect because he has a huge arm, but it really hasn't translated to success yet, having a career minor league ERA 3.99 doesn't scream Ace, I hope (fingers and toes crossed) he gets healthy, rehabs in AAA, comes up later this year and proves that big arm translates to success in the majors, then next year forces the twin to give him a starting spot.

Boston got - Position, team, average, OBP, SLG, OPS Alex Verdugo (OF) BOS - .278,.346,.425 Jeter Downs (SS) AAA -.220,.293,.356, .649 Connor Wong (C) BOS - .273,.273,.364 I am not saying the won or lost the trade, so far it looks like the got a Larnach or Kirilloff in Verdugo, something like Lewis in Downs, and Wong is similiar to Jeffers. I would say that Buxton is not as good as Betts, but maybe better if healthy, so I would expect a team to pay less than that. IMO, I think something like Downs (pretty highly regarded prospect but not living up to the hype, yet) and Wong (a older solid prospect that seems destine to make the majors, maybe not but great but a solid player) is what I would expect the Twins to get for him, To be clear I want them to sign him, but if they can get two prospects that will be Twins regulars by 2023, I wouldn't hate it. (I guess this means they would probably need some time in the majors in 2022)

Didn't the Twins give Donaldson a 4 year 92 million, after coming off of seasons he played - 155,16,36, 113 I believe there is team willing out there will to give Buxton that same contract, but that is just my opinion.

Didn't spend a ton of time, but from my quick look, it looks like the Dodger, Mets, Marlins and Padres (17) all have started a relief pitcher over 10 times this year, which means they went into a game with a plan of starting a relief pitcher for an inning or two and finishing the game off with other relief pitchers, thus lowering there starting pitching average. If you take their main starters Dodgers have 4 starters with 9 or more quality starts, Mets have 2 with over 10, Marlins have 3 with 9, Brewers( 3 over 9, 1 over 5), SD has 1 with 10. Twins Berrios (7), Happ(4), Pineda(4), Shoemaker(3), Maeda(2), Dobnak(1) My real point is when you are running out pitchers that everybody knows isn't going to get you past the 5th, have a better plan then fingers crossed he gets though 5; or runing out 1 inning pitchers for the rest of the game. We all know that Ober is on a pitch and inning limit and I think that is a good plan, so have another pitcher ready that can pitch a few innings, and in the minors let these pitchers get stretched out so that when they get to the majors you are expecting a 5 inning start instead of hoping the pitcher is perfect and will get you to 5 innings, and if in the minors they can't pitch more than that, then you know you have a long relief pitcher to combo with another long relief pitcher.

You are comparing Tampa to the Twins? Name (games, starts, innings) Yarbrough - 18 games, 13 starts 96.1 Hill - 18, 18, 91.1 Glasnow - 14-14- 88 McClanahan - 13-13-60 And then basically a bunch of relief pitchers have started, so basically comparing the two is like apples and oranges.

I seemed to touch a never with saying MLB shouldn't get political, which is funny because I was for them moving the game. but I wasn't naive to think it wouldn't hurt the game. And if people think having the TV attendance go up by 100K over the last one played, when one was skipped because of Covid and having Ohtani do what he was doing isn't a bad thing for the game, they are crazy.

Well the game only drew 8.24 million people, I watched about the same amount of the game as I always do. My point was only MLB needs to better job of getting fans and quite doing things that gets fans to leave. When they get political you alienate half the fan base, why would you do that either way? Everywhere I looked it should have been the faces of Ohtanit, Tatis, Vlad, and others and it wasn't.

That was not at all what I was trying to say. I was trying to say they have one of the most exciting players in at least recent history (Ohtani), and some very personable young super stars in Tatis and Vlad, and instead of promoting the living heck out of them and making the game about these young super stars, they choose politics (moving the game from Atlanta) over their own damn players. And I was saying I don't care if you agree with the move or not, that is irrelevant, just doing it took away from their players and placed their importance on politics. This should have been absolute must watch TV and it wasn't (at all), I sent out a text to my fantasy baseball league (12 players) and asked who is watching this game, 1 other league member said thanks for the reminder, the other 10 said no. I would normally say that is antidotal but the ratings say the same thing.

Seems like a great guy to pair with Ober, let one go 3 to 4 innings and they bring in the other to do the same. In a perfect world one could 4 and the other 4/5 and only need those two pitchers. In a more realistic world, the starter would go 4, the other go 3 and you would only need one/two innings to finish the game, in the disaster game, you bring in Dobnak and say bring us home son.

This is what I found A player who signs after being selected in the MLB Rule 4 Draft (First-Year Player Draft) cannot be traded until after the conclusion of the World Series (no earlier than 9 AM on the day after the final game of the World Series), or for 90 days if the player signs after the World Series

I didn't say and I am not saying MLB is stupid, they make quite a few bad decisions and continue to do so year after year. I mean they had Ohtani starting the game pitching and hitting, Tatis, Vlad and other young stars to promote, and they choose politics over their players (regardless of what side of the issue you are on, this is a fact) and got 8.237 million viewers, barely up from the last all star game. Since there are 30 MLB teams, one could also say they are in the bottom 50% of starter IP, doesn't seem as good as smack in the middle? As for Ober I said - yea more of watching games like the ones Ober pitches in 3 or 4 inning start, unless he is perfect than maybe he gets to 5 innings Then you mansplained on why the Twins are doing what the Twins are doing with Ober, great thanks, wasn't the point at all. The point was when you groom pitchers to go 5 innings in the minor leagues you get starts like the ones Ober currently makes, No major league team can survive doing that every day, there are not enough decent enough pitchers to go out there every few days in relief and never give up runs.

Thanks for pointing out my bad attempt at sarcasm as somebody that is spreading negativity, has no skill or wisdom. I can see how your post helps with solutions and is more interesting and not demeaning to another user of the site at all. I have no idea how good these kids will be and nobody else does either (including the Twins), if they are like most high school kids drafted they will be talked about as the next star (Lewis, Kirilloff for example) for 4 - 6 years or they will flame out/fail before that (Stewart as just one example). And the users of this site will talk about trading them for current help (in a few years, put this in here so you know, I know they can't be traded yet) and others will talk about how you can't trade them they are the future. And in all likely hood, the Twins will have hit bottom (hopefully that is this year) and they will raise to playoff level, then will have a slide again, by the time these kids see the majors.

MLB aren't stupid? There are many examples that might say they aren't the brightest either(all star game attendance, TV issues, allowing the game to be almost unwatchable, minor league salaries, etc...) It isn't new that mediocre/decent pitcher don't pitch a ton of innings or go more than 4,5,6 innings in a start, they are mediocre/decent pitchers. The problem is they are training the pitchers to be 4,5,6 inning pitchers in the minor leagues and never given a chance to stretch out and see if they can become good or better pitchers. How many minor league pitchers in the Twins organization average more than 5 innings in a start? my guess is it is very few, since the next savior of pitchers aren't or are hurt, we are begging to bring up minor league pitchers to see if they can help the Twins in the future and all of these guys are 5 inning minor league's, yea more of watching games like the ones Ober pitches in 3 or 4 inning start, unless he is perfect than maybe he gets to 5 innings, then run out 4 or 5 crappy relief pitchers hoping the offense hits enough homers to make up for how terrible they are, that is can't miss TV. There are 35 names that come before Jose Berrios in the Quality Start column (he is the Twins pitcher with the most QS) . Some of them are rookies and some I had never heard of before. (also one of them is Kyle Gibson and he has 12) That is to me isn't a reflection on Berrios it is a direct reflection on the Twins philosophy on pitching, and it seems only recently (IMO) that they have left the starters in a bit longer than normal, just so they don't have to put another crappy relief pitcher in the game.

Super excited for these guys to be the savior when the fans are talking about rebuild or retool in another 4 to 5 years.

Just because the rest of the league is turning every pitcher in to a glorified relief pitcher doesn't make it right, or remotely interesting to watch, also doesn't really seem to be working at keeping pitches healthy. Watching a Twins game with Rocco managing is frustrating and annoying and makes me turn the game off. You know the first sign of trouble after the 3rd he is mostly likely taking the starter out, then running a new relief pitcher out there every inning. It seems to me if you have a pitcher that you have no plans to get close to 100 pitches consistently, he probably shouldn't be starting the game, hey maybe go with a couple of those guys in the same game, so you aren't blowing though your whole bullpen. To me the philosophy of telling pitchers to go all out for 70-80 pitches and strike out as many guys as possible, be damned that you only pitch 4 innings is what is causing injuries, but I don't have a medical degree.

To me trading Donaldson's is giving up on next year, unless some team offers a great prospect for him, trading him to save money or pretending because Miranda has somehow pushed him out isn't going to fly with the fans (at least the casual fans that go to the game with their family) The other problem with running three rookie pitchers out there every 5th day is that you need relief pitchers to pitch 4 or 5 innings in each of those starts, that is a lot to ask a bunch of relief pitchers. Take Ober for example, all but one of his 8 starts has required 4 other pitchers and in 3 of them it has taken 6. (the one that only took 4 was the game shoemaker gave up 8 runs) My thoughts are the FO and Rocco have to get together and design a game plan to get these minor league pitchers innings in the majors, Maybe something like Berrios, (Ober - 3, Barnes - 3), Maeda, (Happ - 4, Winder-3), Pineada. Or something that runs these guy back and forth to St. Paul. Also is seems like Rocco manages the game like he wants the number 1 pick.

That is what I am saying trading Rogers may help in 3 or 4 years or never, I would say the Astros have won the trade so far.

I totally think giving the Astros a established major league pitcher for a crap shoot of a minor league pitcher is a wonderful idea. I am the for the Twins going down the George Bush 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.'"

The Griffen Jax that has given up 22 hits and 6 BB's and has an ERA of 8.66, and just went 5 innings and gave up 6 runs to the Royals? Ober looks like me maybe OK, but legit? I don't think anything he as done in the majors or minors screams legit.

Rogers pitched 9 innings in 11 games this month, Berrios pitched 25.1 in 4 games, Berrios is the pitcher of the month IMO

Why do they Twins have to trade Donaldson to sign Berrios, did the front office and fans just recently find out that Berrios was due to be a free agent after 2022? If the front office signed Donaldson knowing they couldn't sign Berrios and their plan was to get cheap starting pitchers from the minors and off the scrap heap, they should be fired this second. The only reason to trade Donaldson is because some team is desperate for offensive and has a really highly thought of pitching prospect that is close to the majors they are will to trade to try and win this year, anything else is just stupid, the twins already have a bunch of prospects that will need to be added to the 40 and have some on there that aren't probably going to help next year (Rooker for example). Trade the guys that are free agents at the end of the year for young minor leagues that don't need to be added to the 40 soon and keep the guys under contract.

Everything you mentioned was known the day Donaldson signed, Buxton always hurt, Berrios not being a dominant starter and Donaldson's age. This goes more to show the FO is clueless.

How is going into next year any different than going into this year? The outfield should be better next year with Kepler, Buxton, Kirilloff, Larnach, as of now not much depth in case of injuries, the infield should be close to this year, Healthy Donaldson, Polanco, Sano can't be worse can he? sign another vet to play SS or Simmons, you have Arraez and Gordon to back up. Need a plan for injuries which this FO never really seems to have. Catcher you have Garver and Jeffers, maybe sign a vet to back up, and have Garver, Arraez DH. Pitching you have Berrios, Maeda, and hope and fingers crossed, plus needed depth (same as this year, Pineda getting hurt is no surprise) and Basically Rogers, Duffey and Alcala, and ???? As for getting rid of Donaldson to dump salary, that just proves this FO is inept. Everybody knew Berrios and Buxton were coming do and if they signed Donaldson knowing it would stop them from signing either Berrios or Buxton, then what the heck were they thinking? I have said it in other posts, they need to rebuild this staff on the fly and take advantage of the hitters they have now, and fill holes with players that don't strike out 30-40% of the time. The have a couple of pitchers that need to get up and give a chance to see where they might fit in next year and they have prospects to trade to try to pick up young controllable pitchers.