TheLeviathan

All the best to him in retirement with his family.

If Cruz gets the nomination the Republican party is dead for winning the election. So I guess take your pick which matters more to you.

Hillary is pretty awful, but she's not Trump. Also, I wasn't trying to imply that it wasn't true about conservatives. Part of why I'm so hard on liberals is because I expect them to be rational people. I've stopped even holding that low expectation for most conservatives. And it's a huge issue, the left desperately needs some push back so that their generally good ideas get crafted into something useful and effective. But if your only pushback is coming from the likes of morons like Cruz it's not really effective.

Hope he has a great retirement with his family, was always an easy guy to root for.

Yeah, there was another that said technology has made face to face conversations happen anywhere, anytime so the need to have a sit down at a hotel is also no longer necessary.

Feels like it was years ago. I just read an article, will have to find it, that was cataloging the changes. I think it was on yahoo.

This thread is really awful to read. I think this trade was and is fine on value, how these two players handle full time roles is what will determine this and there is PLENTY of evidence the guy we dealt can't handle that. Ryan has plenty of flaws but for gods sake some of you are ever satisfied short of a 300m deal. If this trade and Park aren't significant than neither would have a savvy signing of Lowe or another reliever. The bar for some of you is just ridiculous. And this is from someone very upset we didn't sign Lowe and another good reliever the last week, but c'mon.

I think Heyward is wildly overrated, but he will provide some things the Cubs lack.

I think it's clear we need Jose Canseco as Trump's running mate.

Yes there were some big moves, but mostly it was piddly stuff. The trading was down from where it used to be. We needed to sign a reliever, I agree, but let's not make it out to be something like the Twins avoiding a feeding frenzy. That wasn't the case.

Would've been nice to do more but let's also be honest - the Winter Meetings ain't what they used to be. Lots of teams did nothing or very little.

So you think they're going to take Sano out of the outfield this year if Plouffe is hurt? Or is it more likely Nunez plays and Sano stays in the outfield. So that depth really isn't depth unless Sano has suddenly become a utility player.

Cmon, the TV deal is a huge factor. They just got guaranteed, way into the future, billions of dollars. The Twins aren't in that position. It's their own fault for their stupid TV deal and they still can spend more than they are, but don't discount the TV deals. That is a massive, guaranteed revenue stream the Twins don't have.

Just because they were aggressive guarantees nothing. Before annointing anything they've done a good move, perhaps we should let it play out. The offseason is often filled with aggressive stupidity.

It's only "depth" if you don't move your big, power hitting stud of a young player to the outfield. Plouffe isn't the problem, the problem is Mauer. Unfortunately that means Plouffe is the one that should move around, not Sano.

I feel like it will go down like this: TR: We want Zach Jones back and we want Lucroy Mil GM: We want Buxton TR: Ok, you give us Jones and Lucroy and Miller Lite and we'll give you Buxton. And then we'll give you a grain belt. Mil GM: Ok TR: Then we'll give you back the Miller Lite and you give us Buxton. Mil Gm: Ugh...ok TR: Then we'll give you the Miller Lite and we'll take the Grain Belt. Nice trading!

I'm impressed with the ability the A's have had to make that Donaldson deal only get worse! Honestly, that might end up being one of the worst trades of the decade at this rate.

This is real bigotry, it's an absolutely appropriate use for it. We keep the word powerful when we apply it correctly and appropriately to situations like this. I got a lot of grief when I voiced my displeasure with the lack of family friendly options at Target Field but the truth is, as a parent, game day experiences are becoming less and less hospitable to anyone with a conscience much less anyone with children. It's a haven for drunken stupidity and, in this case, racist harassment.

This sort of thing is hard to talk about in terms of scale balancing. On the very specific issue I was referencing: having a meaningful, rational conversation on what to do with Islamic terror, I would say that yes, both sides are contributing pretty much equally. I say that because both throw out completely intractable road blocks to the conversation in different ways. Yes, morally speaking, the conservative road blocks are far more reprehensible. But in terms of practical effect on the discussion, the two sides are pretty equal, just coming at it from different angles. Here's the thing, the vast "middle ground" doesn't exist because so many people just go with what their side thinks and rarely think critically about what they are actually saying. (Kind of like I had to point out in the other thread) We need to talk about ways to let these refugees in. To accept peaceful Muslims who want to become Americans. We also need to talk about how to protect ourselves from a very real threat of Islamic extremism. But what we get from one side is nothing but fear mongering about the threat and from the other we can't even talk about the threat at all because it's "racist" (a somewhat non-sensical definition in and of itself) to even broach the subject. Look, you want to be a rational conservative or liberal and have that conversation? Great! You're in the vast minority. It's evident by watching MSNBC, Bill Maher, Fox, reading Slate, reading Breitbart, by seeing the poll numbers for Voldemort, or Hillary (go check out the complete nonsense she offered for her reason for not saying "Islamic Terror" - talk about empty),etc.....that the people leading the majority of the conversation are both contributing greatly to a completely useless and meaningless conversation. Meanwhile the one that needs to happen languishes and real people suffer.

I didn't put them on equal footing, that's your spin. I wouldn't call Trump a conservative, he's in his own category quite frankly. I use the word to describe liberals the same as I do conservatives - a generalization. Generalizations are by their very definition not true for everyone that identifies with the term. So if that's your hang up, you should probably rethink your reaction. The truth is that bulk of the conversation on this issue is being dominated by Fox and MSNBC and that is, unfortunately, what the bulk of our conversations really look like. There are many of us that cringe at that, but it's the truth. And all you have to do is watch either of those networks to see that, yes, that is exactly the mess we're in. One side that refuses to have the conversation and one that is creating bigotry.

Perhaps you don't talk to enough liberals on these issues. I mean, we have an entire section of political conversation that thinks even attaching "Islam" to "terrorism" is grounds to be labeled a racist. The other side fear mongers and creates actual bigotry but in the middle is a conversation we NEED to have and no one is having. At least not as a general populace.

I don't disagree. He's the living embodiment of what we mean when we say "troll". I guess I should've been more clear that I was referring to rational conversation, of which said candidate is not even close to a part of.

I don't mind AZ's intention, but I agree with kab above that this seems move like a Jose Fernandez trade than Shelby Miller.

I think bigotry is growing, but we're also being forced into a very difficult situation. The reality is the greatest organized terrorist threat to the world is Islamic in origin. So we have some valid reasons to be careful about how we handle things ranging from terror prevention to visas. I think one side is clearly rushing too far down the "it's all Muslims" out of fear while the other side doesn't let even a rational conversation happen without screaming "bigots!!!!". The result, yet again, is we can't get anywhere with practical solutions.

I'll be a little disappointed if that's how Milligan wraps up. He was sold as more influential and important than to basically be a non-factor the second half of the season.