old nurse
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Everything posted by old nurse
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I do not disagree with you on that there is talent out there better than what the Twins have. Probably disagree on the value of that talent. Players traded in the past were signed to fill holes on the team. Hollins was traded when he was not working out. Roberto Kelly played here a year and a half before he was traded. That is a far different than singing a player in the hopes of trading them. See Miami for what that does for the integrity of the organization. Otis Nixon left after one year via free agency. Although it was probably as good of year as he ever had anywhere, I don't think the Twins got a draft pick for him. Just for accuracy in claims If signing talent is flipable than the Correia signing can never be bad because you can flip him for a good prospect. (Jab Jab, wink wink. Need a bigger clue that I am throwing it out there just to poke at you?)
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There is a difference of opinion on what constitutes quality. What you advocate as quality is seen as little difference in what the Twins actually signed. You really think that a player is going to sign a contract with the Twins in hopes of being traded to a team that wouldn't sign them originally? This kind of thinking is why Pseudo's comment about making fecal matter up
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It is not so much defending the front office as it is not being terribly tolerant of baseless claims. Quibbling over which mediocre is better is rather pointless but done anyway. When one commenter gets a little cranky, they are responded to similarly and the whole works goes to hell. I don't think any fan is terribly excited about the fact the Twins didn't land a real good pitcher so far. There are different thoughts as to why this is so, and little tolerance for accepting anything beyond "my reason".
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So now it is personal attacks? Please note the pitchers recently outrighted to Rochester. In a year of overpriced pitching these gems you like had 31 other general managers think they were not major league pitchers either. You expect the 4/5 starters to be above average? Why are they in the second half the rotation? Because they are not in the top half of the staff. i.e. Below Average. Correia has generally had a WAR around one, which puts him by the percentage shown in fan graphs to be in the middle of the pack. http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/483944/war_distro_2010.jpg
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what part about it was Jokin's comment I was making fun of did you miss? Go back to where Jokin said it. Deal with him. And you still haven't answered what does Deduno and DeVries have to do with Harden. Conveniently dodge. The Twins tried out 5 replacement level pitchers at the major league level last year. They did not try Martis, Manship, or Matt Maloney as major league starter. There is 8 replacement pitchers from the minors for the Twins last year. None of them are in the plans for 2013. Liam Hendricks still rates as a prospect not a replacement, otherwise there would be 9 for last year. So they should try and find another 10? Don't answer. It is pointless.
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Rather than lose games 9-2 you lose 3-2. Maybe your team gets inspired and you win even more games. All WAR in theory means is you give up 10 less runs per 1 WAR. Should you win 6 more games? Depends on how close the games were. Depends on how the rest of the team plays. So yes, I think you missed a few things.
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The amount of negative energy directed at a player that is hoped to be a 6th starter, disaster plan is just amazing. It is not a spade so you can't call it that. That is why I view it as whining. Retort all you want. I am done.
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Are Deduno, DeVries or any other pitcher like them with less than a couple years service time going to get anything more than a major league minimum when they are in the majors. At least be aware it was Jokin who said they could get 12 Deduno and DeVries for Correia's contract. If they were all on the major league roster, Jokin's math would be off by 2 pitchers. If you were following along the thread you would have also noticed I said I was making light of the absurdity of the comment by Jokin. And since you want to be serious, what does Harden's contract have to do with Dedono or DeVries since you brought it up?
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More on base to be left there. Wouldn't it be better to target higher skill level relievers than Frasor, Brunett, or Swarzak? Swarzak was used more as a long reliever/spot starter, so to compare him and Frasor is not right. The comparable pitcher to Frasor would be Fien. Fien was more effective than Frasor. Brunett would be more of a development player. Ryan Pressly is probably the competition for Brunett. I don't see it as a terribly exciting competition.
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Really??? The original comment was about Harden's contract and the author seemed completely unaware. It has nothing to do with DeVries and Deduno and how they were brought in or the contract they signed. The hope for Harden is completely different than a DeVries or Deduno.
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Continued whining about the Correa signing on your part. There is a reason why at age 29 Deduno has had only 15 big league starts. The absurdity of trying to say the Twins would be better off with this mediocre pitcher over another is what I have been trying to get at. But if you come right out and say people are absurd they take it as a personal insult and complain. That a 5 million contract somehow limits the Twins in signing someone is equally absurd. At the end of the year the results may not be different with any of the low tier free agents or pitchers like Deduno and DeVries. From the pile of free agent arms Correia was chosen. When other pitchers visit the dl, Deduno and DeVries will get their chances. There is still a chance for the Twins to sign quality arms. If they do sign and history repeats itself, Correia can come out of the bullpen and start. By history the results appear to be better than Swarzak's. If you signed a dozen fringe AAA pitchers then wouldn't you get complaining that they are blocking prospects much like the complaining of the outfield and others at Rochester last year.
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I guess making fun of Jokin was missed.
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Adding two pitchers each with a WAR of three would translate into six wins was the original point I responded to. Silly me to think that comment was absurd and post something equally absurd back. Why yes. You are even correct that if you get a team of high WAR players together your chances of winning go up. If they all play well enough together at the right time you have the Detroit Tigers.
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Always outright liars, too.
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Article: Would a Six-Man Rotation Make Sense?
old nurse replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
As completing 6 innings might be a task also, there would still need to be the large bullpen. That would leave the bench short. A regulars day off would be called playing DH that day. -
No I wasn't. But WAR does not predict team success either. It tells you have added a good player. The result of good play may leads to wins, but it takes a whole team to do that. He said to add two players with a WAR of 3 would lead to wins. See the 2009 KC Royals. Winners of 65 games and had two pitchers of high WAR, Grienke and Bannister. The problem in trying to add 2 pitchers with WAR above 3 is that there are not that many players who are consistently above three. The only way the Twins could have added two of them is if two of Dempster, Sanchez, Jackson, or Haren had the same agent and the Twins kidnapped him. Add quality, or add potential for quality as they have done. The problem with a team with so many question marks at this time is to develop high quality players or develop the quality from what others did not see. That takes time. When you have only a couple needs, it is easier to fill. You said "There's a good chance many of these goofy contracts will look downright reasonable in a year." So $5M. for Correia will be a bargain? (No no, not serious)
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While it would be nice to have someone who strikes out a batter once an inning or more, it is a disaster waiting to happen when he gives up on average 3 hits or walks every two innings.
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Do you know the difference between a major league contract and a minor league contract? Are you completely unaware what Harden signed was a minor league contract?
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You were not around in the days of Bombo Rivera. Gene Mauch managing his ass off to get a team to .500 that nobody cared about. They did not come out to watch a .500 team after they were a losing team.
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Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.
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The theoretical question then would be how many more million per year would have it took to get a Sanchez? More than likely well over 2 million as you can't say Detroit wouldn't have gone higher.
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Liriano 3-10 and Blackburn 5-9 made the second and third most starts for the Twins. Middle of the pack on the list above are Guthrie and Santana. 6-10, 9-13 respectively. 41 starts to 63. So add Devries 5-5 and 17 starts and you have 3 more wins. Woo hoo.
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What "advanced" statistic has predictive value. They only describe what happened for that year. Thus to you it is insignificant to know what the pitches thrown do. It is far more useful to know the skills of the player than just the outcome. Embarrassing is that people still do not get the notion that the front offices do not talk about the methods they use to analyze players. People like Beane do it for whatever reason. The 14 people on this board who complain have no clue if the Twins use metrics or not. They make the assumption that because they don't talk about it it is not done.
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When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.
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You are very correct.