jokin

Sorry mudcat, I was composing while you were posting. I too doubt that Engelb=Ozzie is on the table here, but your point is still well-taken. As I pointed out in my post, if Vielma can be 3/4s of a Greg Gagne for the Twins, he would be very valuable, indeed, especially anchoring the left side of an infield with Sano- a sterling glove at SS could keep Sano at 3rd for a few extra years.

Your take is definitely closer to mine, but very far away from Berardino and Callis- who actually think of him in the realm of an emerging potential Top 15 prospect. How many guys who project as "utility types" get this grade? This type of thinking would translate closer up the ranking spectrum towards a Greg Gagne ceiling than a Doug Bernier ceiling. Which not only wouldn't be bad at all, it would be awesome. During, and over Gagne's 13 year career, he graded out as the 4th best defensive SS, behind only Ripken, and the two Ozzies, Smith and Guillen. And he was rated 10th overall SS in terms of fWAR- with a slashline of .254/.302/.382/(.684). If the last 200+ PAs for Vielma aren't just a mirage, I think it's reasonable to hope for something between Gagne and Bernier in terms of slashline/UZR for a major league career.

I don't know if you've seen Vielma or not, but are Callis and Berardino barking up the wrong tree in suggesting that he could potentially penetrate some Twins Top 15 lists in the next 8 months? Do you have a feel for where Vielma would be on your own list should he continue his torrid hitting over the course of the current season?

Yep. But I bet he is up by September.

And I like how this interesting development with Palacios keeps Nick Gordon on his toes. Nothing better to get the best out of the best, than with a little threat to their future job security.

Chris Paul's promotion was a logical move. LaMonte Wade is also slightly older than the Appy League average, seems he might be deserving as well. Why not share time with Tanner English and get Wade up to finish out the season in CF/RF in the Midwest League? Palacios is definitely blocked at Cedar Rapids by Gordon, and the kid just turned 19. Probably just fine to leave him in E-Town for now. Perhaps they can give him a look-see when Cedar Rapids starts their playoffs?

Uhh, Mike is correct, actually, they kinda did: And from the Pioneer Press: "More Prepared"... "More Qualified" These things are pretty easily verified.

Padres claimed Caleb Thielbar.

Reed got in tonight for Ft Myers and threw a scoreless inning, along with Burdi, but these were two of three guys (along with Zach Jones) that were expected to be pitching for the Twins by now, or at least knocking on the door. This seems to be beyond the bounds of "bad luck" and something more systemic.

Indians pitcher Shawn Armstrong made his MLB debut tonight and struck out 2 of 3 batters faced, 8 strikes in 10 pitches, mostly throwing FBs in the high 90s. Armstrong was an 18th round draft pick in 2011 out of East Carolina. An interesting juxtaposition to the 3 recent Twins pitcher call-ups, two of whom endured humiliating performances tonight, the other was Tyler Dufffey, no doubt still suffering from Blue Jay Shellshock. Virtually all of the minor league RPs, or young RPs with MLB experience, who were expected to be considered to possibly have an impact this year have gone backwards in 2015, and which minor league SP besides Berrios can currently be trusted to take the mound for the Twins? Mike, this is actually beyond embarrassing. Time for an outside audit of the entire system.

Yeah, "minimally invasive arthroscopic surgery", to be precise. Either infection, poor rehab habits, or further complications related to the surgery and injury, or some combination of any or all above, led to his 2011 debacle of a season, but the same knee has been bothering him since 2004.

Yeah, and if that continues to happen (seems likely), they probably don't even want to bother building a Vielma "bridge" for likely just parts of two seasons (2017 and 2018) in anticipation of a potential Gordon ascendancy.

Uhh, yep. His knee surgery in the 2010-11 offseason led to the bilateral leg weakness disaster. And he had surgery and ongoing issues with the same left knee in 2004.

Well, I depicted him as "anonymous" in the sense that most Twins fans have either never heard of him, and of those that have, have little to no expectations for him to be in the mix for a starting SS role. On management side, Polanco is the one who has the buzz for being the current comer in the org at the position, which will leave Vielma with little to no shot. Seth, do you forsee the plan forward for Vielma and Gordon is to finish out the seasons where they're at, and then starting out in business-as-usual fashion in 2016, with Vielma to be the primary SS at Chattanooga and Gordon the primary SS at Ft Myers? Vielma is about 1.5 years older, with 2 more years of professional experience. He's on the 2017 ETA list, while Gordon's ETA is scheduled for 2019. Does the projected progression fit such that the Twins might give Vielma a legit shot at the MLB SS job for a couple seasons? Is his glove an obvious enough upgrade over Polanco, Santana and Escobar that he could supplant one or two or three of them in the interim of the arrival of Gordon (especially with respect to possibly moving Sano to full-time at 3rd and having a super-strong SS immediately to his left?)? Has Gordon shown enough for the Twins to opt for him as one of their two eligible players below AA to go to the AFL this fall? (In which case, is it possible they forsee Gordon playing 2 MiLB levels in 2016 and possibly moving up the ETA timetable?)

I get what you're saying, credit to you and a few others who dig a little deeper on the Twins prospect list. But Vielma has to be one of the least discussed future major league options by Twins fans in general. And if his profile remains as a future potential Pedro Florimon, there's good reason why he's not discussed much. There's a little bit of flukiness in Vielma's numbers over the last 2 months, but if he's actually turned a corner at the plate a bit, and can please Molitor enough with his bunting and baserunning acumen, he might represent the best option to put out there at SS for a few years as a defensive buffer while Sano hones and refines his craft at 3B.

While Twins fans fans have openly speculated, and the the Twins FO and manager have maneuvered 4 options for their open SS position- both in and out of the lineup- and up and down 3 levels of the system, there is one guy who sits somewhere, somewhat anonymously, right in the middle of the Twins' SS Field of Dreams. While the immediate future for staffing the SS position is between the aforementioned 4 guys, the Twins also have 3 guys in the lower minors who offer great promise if they can stick at the position- Gordon, Palacio and Javier. The latter 3 offer potential impact at some point early in the next decade. But what about the guy at High A? The guy whose full name reminds one of holding the worst Scrabble hand ever? The guy that Mike Berardino tapped as one of the top two guys to crack the Top 15 after this season?: And Berardino isn't the only expert who considers Vielma the Twins' best SS glove. Jim Callis had this to say: That 65 rating compares favorably to his 3 closest rivals: Gordon- 60 Polanco- 50 Santana- 50 The key to the whole analysis and ceiling speculation is whether or not Vielma's bat can develop enough to earn everyday consideration at some point by the Twins. Vielma's start to the season at Fort Myers was far less than encouraging- 191 PA .187/.224/.228/.452 Slash 4.2% BB% 18.8% K% 37 wRC+ But I was pleasantly surpirsed when I found out what he's done since then: 201 PA.353/.404/.393/..798 Slash 8.5% BB% 11.8% K% 145 wRC+ In addition to a complete turnaround at the plate over the last 2 months or so, he has become a major threat on the basepaths, with 27 Stolen Bases. He appears destined to finish out 2015 with 30-something SBs, and prior to this, he has never had more than 10 SBs in any single season. His measurable defensive numbers are all up this year, even over his previous excellent rates. He just turned 21 in June... despite his youth, could he start fitting into the Twins' plans starting in the 2nd half of 2016, and going into 2017? I've always figured him as a future strong utility guy, he will probably never have the pop at the plate as some of his other rivals, but I'll ask again: Can his superior glove, plus his new-found speed on the basepaths and evidently-improving hitting potential at the bottom of the Twins batting order propel his starter-status higher going forward?

It's impossible for me to fathom that starting him out in AAA next year is under any consideration. It's impossible for me to fathom that anyone wants Buxton to use the entire alotted rehab time. It's also impossible for me to fathom that anyone is concerned about burning Buxton's options. If last night was any indication, he should be starting in CF for the Twins by sometime in the next homestand. Unless there's some ongoing undisclosed health issue, he should be getting as much exposure to major league pitching as possible through the end of 2015, so that he hits the ground running on Opening Day, 2016, to take his rightful place as the Twins leadoff man and team's best position player. If he stumbles out of the gate after a month or so of PAs next April, that should be the time to give him some more AAA seasoning.

Nice summation. Lots of faulty logic employed in the OP.

. No possible way? Uhh, the trade the Jays made suggests there was every possible way that something resembling the above deal would have worked. It is now obvious that the Rockies' top priority was a salary dump. The Jays stole Tulo in this deal, and dumped Reyes besides.

Of course, Snopes veracity is still, well, "undetermined", as well.

Oh the irony, It Burns... It Burns...

Sure, he seems worn out right now, but he also seemed that way back in April, Defensively, it looks like in making a small improvement in his pitch-framing, his pitch-blocking abilities have all but vanished. As far as his hitting tool goes- it was pretty obvious to everyone, except Twins management, that last season was a career year, and this is the norm going forward.

I'd say there will be room on the 7-day DL for Kepler. Hopefully not, but his history indicates that that's where he's headed.

The only part you're right about is the "not even close" one. In all actuality, "that point", already landed, refueled, retooled and took back to the skies a few weeks ago- starting with the consecutive dice throws on Meyer in the pen and May in limbo... instead of makng the deals that were out there- if one was just wiliing to get on the phone a little earlier than the rest of the pack. (How do you not call the usual salary-dumping suspects- starting in June for pitching help? Just two examples of many that were out there... In the middle of July the Cards traded a non-top-30, 25 year old C prospect for Steven Cishek- who had a positive WAR for the year, versus the Twins, who gave up 2 prospects for a replacement level arm- at the deadline date. And I would wager that LaTroy Hawkins could have been acquired in similar, even less costly, fashion. Headscratching.)

Thrown out of game after complaining about being HBP in the wrist, only to have the home plate umpire call it a strike.