BHtwins

I think you know what I meant and the idea that Mauer is overpaid or underperforming the market of when he signed is borderline absurd. Yes more negativity i suppose too. I will continue to say that using slash stats, home run totals and dependent counting stats as a basis of criticizing Joe Mauer shows a relative lack of sophistication in the media and run of the mill fan. Its not that those fans and media dont exist in Boston, but the generally arent the dominant voice as exists here sometimes. Minnesota is a football, hockey first state. That is in no way a statement on our character.

Not at all what i'm saying. I think the fans here (TD) are relatively sophisticated in their baseball knowledge. What i am saying is there is a whole lot more baseball rabid fans in those other markets and they drive the narrative. Check out Sons of Sam Horn sometime, hundredsof good smart posters and thousands upon thousands of lurkers there also is a huge difference in NY hate of Arod for his horrible d-baggery and the idea that Joe Mauer sucks at baseball common in Minnesota.

Unrealistic expectation, relatively unsophisticated media and fan base and playing in an often horrible line-up and horribly constructed line-up. He would be much more appreciated in more baseball savvy markets like Boston or New York Ruesse, its a small sample and he is hitting behind a guy off to a horrid start. For gods sake he has only had 5 plate appearances with runners in scoring position and he walked one of those.

There are 16 catchers in the hall of fame. He is somewhere between 5-8 in value right now. All he is doing is padding stats at this point. He is almost assuredly in, first ballot or not.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of virtual ink is spilled over Plouffe. The Twins lost 90 not because of Plouffe. He is an averagish to slightly above average 3rd baseman. With how poor other pieces of this roster are you ought to be thrilled. He is cheap, under team control, and an asset. Maybe not perfect but there are so many other things to complain about.

The Mauer haterade is infuriating and soooo misplaced if one has any understanding of the game. He is a typical Minnesota kid in action and mannerism except he has godly baseball talent. When Bill James re-writes the Historical Abstract I would guess That Mauer finds himself somewhere between 5-8 of ALL TIME and maybe the purest hitting catcher ever. You realize how rare it is for a catcher to win an AL batting title? and actually be a pretty good defensive catcher.

I am more negative then previous years just because the things that drive me crazy about the management of my favorite team haven't changed one iota. Add on Sano's injury, Buxton's injury and the fact the Kubel and Bartlett are going to get significant amount of plate appearances. Its kind of depressing. and holy crap, I know Kurt Suzuki is going to get a bunch of at bats in the 2 slot??? Also have you looked at the first 45 games of the schedule or so? Holy crap.. Listen, I HOPE Kubel and Bartlett do great and I HOPE Suzuki gets on base a bunch and scores 100 runs but is there any reason to think that could happen? My optimistic predictions. Plouffe, Dozier Hicks and Arcia all perform above replacement level. Mauer does exactly what he does but for 30 more games. The starting staff goes from painful to just embarrassing and a bullpen that isn't beat death actually performs pretty damn well.

The problem isn't "giving them a chance" The problem is there is a finite number of roster positions and the players who lost them to Kubel and Bartlett have a brighter future even if they're not perennial starters. Id rather be young and ugly with the opportunity to get better then old and ugly and stuck in neutral. I hope I'm wrong but this maybe one of those errors in decision making.

I think many people ( me included sometimes) read what Bill James writes but dont *listen* to what he said. RBI's are over-rated but far from meaningless. Its most over-rated as an individual stat. If every dinger that Mark Mcgwire hit in 98 was a solo shot that is 70 RBI's which is significant...and certainly not meaningless. Problem is, as an individual stat it is at least partially a product of opportunity, so as a stat to rate individual performance its really kind of lousy. Player A has 100 opportunities and drives in 50 runs. Player B has 60 opportunities and drives in 48 runs. Guys making free agency decisions and arguing arbitration cases better be smarter then using counting stats in general and dependent counting stats specifically.

I think fire and attitude and especially demeanor are over-rated. Which isnt to say that it does not matter, but that their not as important as most people think. Pete Rose didnt get 4000 hits because he sprinted out to his fielding position every inning. He did because he had the inate ability to hit major league pitching. All those positive abstract qualities probably make some difference which should end up in the statistical record. Paraphrasing Bill James, it's not that they do not matter it's that they are impossible to quantify. As it is though, Ill take a team full of Joe Mauer's and Stan Musials and beat the snot out of a team of Nick Puntos and AJ Pierszinkis

Do we have a source that Andrews looked at it and recommended that rest would be the right direction? What Ive seen today suggests that there has been absolutely no new injury and no change in the MRI from September. Im wondering...

Sure...if anything he said was remotely accurate and not just garbage there would be room for discussion. Actually...nevermind I argue politics all the time....don't need to do it on a baseball board.

Omg...please can we leave complete garbage like this out of a thread where people are expressing hope for the people of Venezuela.

Mauer's best 5 season are all above 140 in OPS+. Puckett had 2. My vote is Killibrew, Carew, Mauer, Puckett and that wouldnt change if Mauer retired tomorrow. Be nice if Mauer had the word series heroics but that isnt really his fault. Mauer is the Craig Biggio of the Twins....no respect...no respect..

A lot of what what has been written about the Ortiz deal is urban myth by crowd that must protect the "Twins Way" at any cost. First, there were a whole lot of us more statistically oriented Twins fans at the time that were rather perturbed that he was non-tendered. It was a big deal then so it wasnt like no one cared. A lot of people did and said it was foolish. Second, he was non-tendered so he was a free agent. So while technically "every team" could have passed on him, no one besides Papi and his agent knows how many and what kind of offers were out there. His agent is Pedro Martinez's agent so many thought Boston was a natural. It is known that the 3 statistically inclined franchises had interest and likely made or would have made offers. Third, both his free agent and trade market were somewhat hurt by another round of "Ortiz is 29 or 30 not 26" rumors going around again at that time. Supposedly TR tried to trade him before non-tendering him but we have no idea what he was asking for and how hard he tried. Fourth, Boston very clearly knew what they had. Theo was particularly enamored with Ortiz John Henry and Bill James less so which is why the hedged contract. Theo tried hard all spring and the start of the season to move a 3rd baseman or a 1st baseman to clear up the log jam for Ortiz and force or persuade Grady to play Ortiz. It wasnt so much the injuries, although that didnt hurt, as much as the trading of Shea Hillenbrand that made Ortiz get more regular at bats. Fifth, he wasnt markedly improved or different player with the Red Sox. He was exactly the same type of hitter he was with the Twins with a couple of differences. He swung at fewer pitches, which made his walks and by extension K's increase and he swung harder. He was less concerned with contact and bat control then controlling the strike zone and hitting the ball hard.

There is no universe, parallel or bizarro, that aggressive base-running earns you 40 runs a year. You would need an entire line-up of Mike Trouts or Carlos Gomez.

I think its a valid management style for business when talent disparities arent as apparent. In other words, if you get an extra 10% from Bob in accounting because he loves loves loves his company that means something tangible. On the other hand if you get an extra 10% out of Doug Bernier it doesnt turn him into a valuable major leaguer

They had a perennial Cy Young candidate and a solid young rotation a lights out bull pen, two former or future MVPS. If anything they underachieved. Those teams from 2004-2008 should have won the division. For sure I think the 2006 team had world series caliber talent. The 2007-2008 teams should have won the division but some big spending from rivals plus underperforming prevented it. the 2010 team is the only outlier from a talent perspective.

The Pohlads are absolutely delusional. They might win again but just like I said when they were winning all those divisions. They were winning despite of Gardenhire, not because of him. There is absolutely no risk of doing a poor job and no accountability. We talk about player scholarship...its clear we have front office and coaching scholarships.

I don't think losing Torii Hunter to free-agency has made one ounce of difference. Complete and absolute non-factor at this point in time. The Santana trade was bad in a bad situation but Id argue the Garza-Bartlett for Young did more long-term damage, as was jettisoning JJ Hardy. I have no hope at this point that anything changes and next year is a 90 loss season as well. Also there is no 100% guarantee that those 4 of the top 75 turn into star caliber players. At one time Delmon Young was a BA #1

3 90 loss seasons is not competitive. They're staring a 4th 90 loss season right in the face as well unless some really good moves are made this off-season. Its just time for a fresh start

I like Terry Ryan and I have a ton of respect for him....but its just time for some new blood from top to bottom. Id be ok with him sticking around if he could surround himself with good progressive baseball thinkers. There isnt a single coach I would keep with the exception of possibly BP. I dont like Gardy, I dont think managers in any business can be successful by playing favorites and singling out team members for individual scrutiny. For far too long he has played obvious favorites with players and done this rude passive-aggressive thing of singling players out for scrutiny through little snarky comments. I hate that and always have.. Thats not how you build a team. On top of that he has never thought outside of the very narrow box of traditional baseball strategy. We about threw a party when he actually <gasp> moved his best OBP guy up in the order. That says it all to me. There is very few industries where upper and front line managers would survive what the Twins have gone through the last 3 years. They had every thing they asked for to make themselves long term competitive and they screwed it up.

Problem is....he is exactly that to a lot of people here. There are at least a half a dozen or more threads directly related to Plouffe. He just gets savaged all the time here. It makes no sense. No matter how many paragraphs you write....there is absolutely no objective reason for all the angst. Like so many threads and discussions here...its a lost cause because too many people write about feelings not actual results. Something about Plouffe besides his results pisses people off and I just flat dont get it. I' say similar things on JJ Hardy as well. There was a lot of inbred angst about his supposed lack of caring whilst he was here as well. Plouffe aint the problem, has never really been the problem, has performed pretty much exactly how you would expect a limited talent toolsy high school shortstop would if not perhaps better. He was never a particularly great prospect. He graduated the Appy with a .719 OPS and that was his high point until repeating AA. He wasnt on any BA list coming up. If you took a poll of people who actually know what their talking about 5 years ago and you'd have a hard time finding a majority that would have thought he would contribute at all.

Even if this supposed lack of hustle exists (which I dont really buy btw) so what? This is a team that started the false hustle of Nick Punto for huge swaths of time and endured Danny Valencia. Id say Plouffe is a refreshing change. He actually looks like a major league capable hitter in the box most of the time. As far as unrewarded promise...thats largely a load of BS too. He was never a very highly touted prospect while coming up. He was a high draft pick yes....but a pick that was questionable and widely criticized. He turned out better than I thought he would 4 years ago. So he sucks...but his level of suckitude isnt even in the top half of general roster suckiness. I'm more pissed about the multimillion dollar back-up catcher that cant catch and hasnt hit either and the multi-million dollar outfielder that is hitting .210 and cant really field either.

There are still at least 10 spots maybe 15 on the roster that are in worse shape than starting 3rd baseman. What about Plouffe just pisses everyone off? I still dont get it. So he is in the bottom 1/4 of 3rd baseman even...so what, the starting staff is much worse, the only position above that threshold is Catcher, SS and 2B. There are 4 relievers above replacement level. Like I said there are much bigger fish to fry yet Plouffe just gets cooked here almost daily.