Dantes929

I get all that. I read the fangraphs article and it didn't look all that bad to me. I know there are no guarantees but he is healthy now (5 quality starts in a row) and if you think he can give you 3 years of quality that slots in with one of your needs listed above then its something you should consider. In the last 7 years we have had one pitcher that has given us a 3 years stretch of quality and that's only if you consider Santana to be that guy. Berrios, Meija and Gray would not block any of those other guys from achieving their potential and if more than two of those guys come up big Gray still makes a tradeable asset. I'm just saying a trade like this isn't necessarily a buy, sell or stand pat move. It has elements in between. Of course Gray can get hurt and Gordon can become a good SS for years to come but Gordon can get hurt and Gray can have three great years also. I just don't view him as a rental. If I did, I would not consider the move.

You need to name that other top piece. I was for standing pat but Gray would be a three year asset rather than a rental. With Santana, Berrios, Meija throwing well and Gibson pitching like a pretty good #5, Gray would look really good in this rotation this year and through 2019 or could be traded for a guy like Gordon and another top piece. I think we have a mindset here that we will be fleeced in any trade but a trade can be good for both sides.

Stand pat as an organization but give Gonsalves a chance instead of the likes of Colon. We don't need Cy Young in that 5th spot but some one capable of a 5 ERA instead of a 9 can make the difference. Gonsalves WHIP is below 1.00 and his SO/BB ratio is 5.86. Those are wonderful stats and should be able to translate into better than a 9 ERA in the majors. If nothing else it gets his feet wet. At a very base minimum I would like to hear from the Twins what it is he needs to work on.

I don't care so much about the power. When he gets on, Dozier, Mauer and Sano see more fast balls in addition to the simple distraction to the pitcher of having a guy like that on base. I do think we are going to see a monster stretch at some point and to me that would be a stretch of getting on base .380 or better.. I still think Buxton, Mauer, Dozier, Sano and Kepler will be a fearsome thing at some point.

I was in the middle of a conversation with a girl when she said something and followed it with "no pun intended". I thought about her prior sentence and said "there was no pun" She said "Of course there wasn't. Weren't you listening? I even said that I intended for there to be no pun" Not a big fan of puns so that is still my favorite exchange ever about puns.

Altuve without the pop equals Puckett rookie year. I would take that in a heart beat but I don't think Granite is that. Then again, the jump to the majors isn't just the next level. Its starting over with all that it brings. Nerves, confidence, stress. I am fine with him out there for the time being.

I remarked yesterday how defensive lapses have possibly lead to all three of our last losses so would be remiss to point out that defense saved the game yesterday. This team has shown a lot of resiliency to this point. Anyone else think Dozier's play at the plate should have been challenged? It was extremely close but also Dozier did not have anywhere near a clear path to the plate.

Plays you pointed out today. Error by Polanco that led to 8 runs on Friday and Santana's throw to center on a double play ball in his last start before the break make all 3 of our last 3 losses winnable if we simply make the plays that we are supposed to. It happens but you can see how Buxton can be a pitcher's best friend.

We had a 3-1 game two lead in the 9th inning with our all star closer on the mound in 2009. We had a 1-0 lead going into the 7th in game three and ran ourselves off the bases in the 8th. In 2010 we had similar leads in the 6th and 7th of games one and two. Starting pitching put us in position to win all those games. Don't confuse didn't win with could not have won. KC had a worse model in 2015 and 2016. Of course an ace is preferable but I am ok with taking our chances if we get to the playoffs. Put the horse before the cart. Get to the playoffs and you have a chance. Don't get there and you have no chance. Is trading offensive talent for pitching talent going to get us there? If so, then do it. If internal pitching guys step up and can get us to the playoffs without sacrificing Gordon or Kepler or Buxton. That is ok also. These guys don't impress me as still being afraid of the Yankees or anyone else if they do get there.

You don't need the traditional 1-5. 2008 -2010 did pretty well because they had guys that could occasionally pitch like aces but basically were 3 guys that pitched like either 2's or 3's in Pavano, Liriano and Baker and guys like Slowey, Blackburn and Duensing that were back of rotation guys but were better than other team;s back of rotation guys. Anything that adds up to 15 or less is desirable. Santana looks like he is in pretty good shape and was just an all star. Berrios, and Santana at #2 Romero at # 3 and May and Meijia pitching like Good 4's or ok 3's gets us there. Not that I am opposed to getting another good pitcher. I dispute the idea that you need a power #1 pitcher to do well in the playoffs. First, I don't know why a power #1 is better than a non power #1 and the Twins have beaten guys like Sale before and a #2 guy pitching well gives you a chance any game. I would love to have an ace but it is no guarantee of success and not having one is not a guarantee of failure.

IMO, this is the type of game that has been missing from the Twins. Generally when they are down big early the bullpen has extended the lead. It was fine with me because those are lower percentage things and if a bullpen is thin these are the type of games you let the mop up guys and back up catchers finish the game.. As long as we were winning the games that we had leads or were close in the late innings I was happy sacrificing the blow out losses and the pen ERA. Having guys like Pressley, Belisle and Hildenberg step up means that even early deficits don't guarantee losses, any more. This is really a sweet win.

What happens if you pick someone with the #1 overall and you can't sign him? Do you just lose him and the pick?

Nice win. Anyone see Sano drop a ball and recall again that Mauer hasn't had an error all season. He's prevented plenty of them as well. My high school coach always preached that when you make errors you always try to follow with a good play. Exactly what Sano did in the bottom of the inning with a big bases loaded single that got the rally started. Nice job bull pen.

What is overlooked is that the shoe was on the other foot for a while. Maybin almost certainly should have scored on the previous play when Kepler had to dive for a shallow fly ball. That should have been the play that LA's fans could chew on. Instead, the Twins bailed him out.

"b.Getting to the post season as a wild card team without any plan for long term winning it all will give you about as much possibility of wining as practically not being there.Ask the Twins of the 00s if you don't believe me.Been there done that, should learn something from it." Twins of the 00's never got there as a wild card team, had MVP's, Cy Young's and Relief Pitchers of the Year that simply didn't get the job done. The fact that they didn't get the job done doesn't mean that they couldn't have gotten the job done. Astros are a really good team but good starts from Santana and Berrios can defeat them just like getting good starts from Blyleven and Viola did the Tigers. Ask the 2015 Royals if getting in as a wild card team was practically the same as not being there. I have no problem getting better by getting a good relief pitcher depending on what is given up, as always. "c. One bullpen arm, even though better than no arm, would not close all of the Twins holes towards getting to the postseason and going far in it.And potentially that single arm could be Curtiss, Bard, Reed etc." Ok, that one really lost me. One bullpen arm does not close all the holes but potentially Curtiss, Bard, etc could be that single arm? Getting Hand should not block any or all of those guys from succeeding and getting Hand along with one or even two of those guys stepping up turns our bullpen depth from a weakness to a strength. KC got to one and won another WS with weak rotations, holes in the lineup and suspect starting pitching. Not the formula I would treat as a blueprint of success but getting a good reliever gets us closer to an ideal blueprint not farther away from it.

I would say the world's greatest reliever for the next several years for prospects, depending on who they are would absolutely fit the criteria of prospects for something of real value. Our biggest weaknesses are depth of the bullpen and starting pitching. Starting pitching appears to be shaping up and yes, there do appear to be some prospects ready to step up in relief but I think Hand has real value. If he was our asset with those stats we would not be saying, hey lets trade him for someone's top 30 prospect.

You are saying this with the opinion that Granite for Rosario would make our offense weaker. Earlier it was suggested that it might take Gonsalves plus Gordon. To me that would be over paying so it really depends on perceived value. Granite appears to be deserving of promotion and Hand appears to be a real asset. Eddie had a .9 WAR last year to Hand's 1.6. .8 to 1.0 this year. Hand appears to be the real deal so i don't think it will be for low level prospects.

Would Eddie Rosario get Hand? We can promote Granite.

If what you say is true I am with you but what needs to be cleaned up? Berrios had command issues that I agreed should be cleaned out at the lower level but I don't quite understand when someone says so and so should be ready after 4 more starts. Just seems too arbitrary. What does Gonsalves need to clean up? If there is a reasonable answer then I am fine with it.

I agree with you but that still leaves Santiago. You don't have to move all three of them up at once but I still favor merit. Gibson apparently benefited from going down to the minors and I for one think he has been pretty much what we want ever since. Santiago has not been what we want. Give Jorge a shot. If he falters give Gonsalves a shot. If Santiago does great then bring him back if someone falters. Merit based pitching. We have kind of been over this before. If the minor league guys have stuff they need to work on in order to increase their chances of success then great, have them go the route you prefer. If they have command poise and major league pitches, then get them up here when there is opportunity and Santiago presents an opportunity.

A while back Gibson had a really good game where he threw curve balls like 37% of the time. Doesn't look like he has thrown it much since then. Looked like a good pitch. Santana regressing while Meija and Gibson progressing is ok with me. Jorge for Santiago and the rotation looks ok.

Works with groceries too.

Yes. So did I but I didn't count it as a win while still in the 3rd inning. Its like being even par after 4 holes and saying "Hey, I've got this game figured out". I don't even like when Dick or Bert assume a win with a 4 run lead in the 9th. If there is one unwritten rule in baseball I follow that is it.

I blame Jack Morris. Twins had a 5-1 lead in the 3rd inning Saturday afternoon and Morris said something to the effect "well, the Twins have this one pretty well wrapped up". I am not overly superstitious but I do believe in the baseball Gods. They do not like those comments. I just groaned and said to my wife "it will be tied up by the 7th inning". Morris should know better.

Tom provided really good details about how Gibson was unlucky. Two hits with about 10% probability is unlucky. Gibson has been pitching pretty well lately and even this game he kept within reach. Lead off walk is generally not bad luck though. I don't accept bad luck over the long term. Certainly applies in the short term.