bunsen82

I think it comes down to either they think they can get Jackson to AAA, they trust Cardenas or Winkel in a pinch, or they think they can flip Jackson for a catcher with options and higher upside than Pereda. I just don't see Pereda making it through waivers.

Stanton (If you are willing to state he is AAAA) , Bendan, Cruz, Leiter and Gil would not make the cut per the previous rules others have already created. Not even 1 WAR on those relievers. Not worth it per multiple people on here. So we are left at 13 out of 26. Ultimately its a silly exercise. We can either try to box players to categories to ultimately try to go after Ownership and Falvey. After every signing we get - "Go Big or Go Home" quote. I think most are ok with some low wattage moves to fill the bench or AAA roster moves - but the frustration continues to be on the bullpen trades from last deadline. They are unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt to Falvey. Right wrong or indifferent. He effectively did the same thing that Milwaukee or Tampa Bay has done, but our fans are unwilling to give him or Pohlads the benefit of the doubt, and I can admit lot of the distrust is earned by the Pohlads. Falvey came into a job where the Twins had no MLB team or farm system - yet has .521 winning % which is about as good of a 10 year run as any other decade in Twins history. At some point you have to try something different - and will let Falvey go. The new Pohlad says they need to win this year. What does that mean, .500, winning the division? Thats the confusion and mixed messaging when the best high leverage reliever we currently have in the bullpen is Cole Sands - who is a mid to back end reliever on most teams. Now the bullpen is the one area where you can build quicker and cheaper than pitching or position players. So ultimately yes there a certain players that deserve to have AAAA label, but a majority of these players and just people chasing their dreams. I am not here to limit them on their goal, and the bullpen is the one area where players suddenly in their 30's can become good assets - (ie Coloumbe, Stewart - 2 of the arms we traded last year). This will not be a great bullpen as currently constructed, you will need things to go right to even get to mid tier. So thats where I am going to leave this at. I am ok watching players try to make the team and trying to win for my enjoyment. And the closer to .500 great and maybe you have the stars align and we have a 2019. Ultimately we are building for 2027 and later and arguing whether players deserved to be called MLB players and be labeled AAAA players doesn't seem right, but also isn't worth my time any more.

The two of us just see things completely differently. The issue is @Richie the Rally Goat had negotiated a truce that @USAFChief and I were going to ignore each other and not respond to each other posts - and I will log on to multiple laughing emojis and passive aggressive posts directed at me. Guess I am the only one who honors a deal. So yes I think a drink is good.

Well there is only a handful of us.

1. The team isn't fully constructed. 2. Multiple teams have a Rogers or Orze, we don't know that they are being counted on for leverage 3. I dislike our current bullpen, I wanted more - I don't think we will get it. 4. The Twins have consistently outperformed in the bullpen based on the talent other than last year.

Garlick (5 years) is the 1st - the middle is Clemens (4 seasons, but broke out) - thats easy performed poorly every year other than last year. Wagaman (1 full season other cup a coffee) is the last who isn't set to be on the MLB team. Last year was his 1st year of full year experience. No different than a Brooks Lee.

Then every team will by over half of the team, except for the Dodgers. Its a dumb argument and exercise. So are Braves a crap team since they underperformed last year. Orioles, Rays, Rangers, Braves, Cardinals, Giants, Diamondbacks - guess since all those teams underperformed they all must have a bunch of crap players. Orze is a prospect - this is his second year in big leagues. Last year had a .6 WAR. In my opinion relief pitcher WAR below 1 doesn't really count as AAAA pitcher. By that standard, Jax, Varland, Stewart, Coloumbe, Thielbar, are all AAAA pitchers because they don't consistently get over 1 WAR. If we are saying those aren't MLB players this is stupid. The only reliever who the Twins have had consistently over is Duran.

The argument as originally constructed was 1/2 of the MLB team is AAAA players its just false. Regarding Clemens I would say its 50/50 he hits 1.0 WAR or better. Generally with those odds I wouldn't take my bet. It this case. Deal me in. The theory has always been replacement players are those below 1 WAR which is why the argument came up with the 1 WAR which is still worth approximately 10 million of worth. The other stipulation has always been 3-4 or more seasons of continued under performance and up and down from AAA to the major leagues, IE Cave. Yes you will have AAAA players that get time at the MLB level, primarily due to injuries. Hence Jake Cave for multiple years. Having a few players that are AAAA players as depth in AAA is the standard practice so why would this be considered a negative? Again I don't see the argument why this is a bad practice. We can have differences of opinion but even as of right now here is who I have as major leaguers (or prospects still considered MLB as AAAA not yet earned)- Abel, Bradley, Festa, Funderburk, Lopez, Matthews, Ober, Orze, Ryan, Sands, Topa, SWR, Jeffers, Caratini, Bell, Clemens (graduated), Keaschall, Lee, Lewis, Buxton, Martin, Wallner Larnach. So I am at 23 out of 26.

Thats not the team thats the 40 man, not the 26 man Big big difference. So you are mad about AAAA players in AAA? I can't even argue this anymore. Abel is still a prospect in my book. Last year was his 1st season at MLB no different than Ohl, and Adams. Brooks Lee is in his 2nd full season as well as Roden, Wagaman, and Funderburk (who has had positive WAR last year). These 4 is the make or break year on how they are qualified in my opinion. Jackson - will either be traded, DFA's or in AAA (otherwise Yes) Clemens with 1 WAR last year doesn't meet your qualifications. (Had been but removed by last years perfomance). Kriedler, Outman, Gray and Julien - AAAA all day long. But how many of those remain on the 40 man or even with the team through spring training or this season. Most likely you have 2- AAAA players on the 26 man as depth pieces and 4 at the most.

I was going to say when I think of AAAA players I think of Kyle Garlick or Jake Cave, players that are up and down and just can't make it at the MLB level like Gasper or Jonah Bride from last year.

The Yankees then only had 13 players with a WAR above 1.1. Guess they have 50% AAAA players. If thats the justification, then what are we making a big deal about this then. I thought by this point most of the fans would have gotten over the trade deadline. Its clear they have not. Better I just go on my way and cheer on my team like I have the last 40 years. Looks like its going to be a lonely group.

The Peralta situation is odd. That only makes sense if we are part of 3 way trade, we are trading a starter like Ryan and can get arbitrage value between the 2 - that just seemed like an odd development. I think we were in on Dominguez and got out of our price range.

Actually I was more impressed he was able to get that much after waiting it out. Most likely was a couple suitors.

I understand but when the claim is 1/2 of our team is AAAA players, and it wasn't just 1 statement or 1 moderator I am tempted to say, ok go ahead and name them. You calling Lewis, Lee, Martin, Larnach, Wallner SWR, AAAA players? At most we will have 2-3 bench players and maybe 1-2 bullpen arms that we would be potentially in this category of players needing to prove themselves no different than a Castro or Clemens last year. Yes they are low wattage moves improving the bottom, but they are also dismissing a solid signing in Rogers, and ignoring potential upside or usefulness in players like Jackson, Wagaman, Gray and Orze. Maybe 1 or 2 fail, maybe we find a really solid player like Castro. You just don't know. Ultimately they are building a .500 team for what it appears. Maybe going the middle route is what so many are upset about. Personally this is the first year in 10 in my opinion where they haven't built a team that it appeared it could compete. All in all thats pretty damn good for a Twins fan. I think a majority of these fans are not remembering the doldrums of the late 90s or early 2010's. We can have so much worse that what we have now. Last years team wasn't a bottom 4 team, but it became that way because they used it as a way to improve the assets of the team through trades and draft position. 2023 I will agree they went all out, and even 2022. But every other year including 2019 they have taken the exact same approach as this year. 2019- Cron, Schoop, Perez, Anibal Sanchez, Pineda - Cruz was your big signing and then that pitching staff is rough. They have Berrios, Odorizzi (trade palacios), For the playoffs we were counting on kid name Dobnak who had been a Uber driver. Bullpen was Rogers, May, and Duffey.

I can't disagree with you. The trade deadline and the actions after, lineup, lack of help in the bullpen showed their actions. They didn't actively try to make the team lose, but they made it awfully hard for them to win. The biggest issue with this strategy is destroying the confidence of your players. I continue to say, I would have rather, invested slightly in the team similar to the Braves. Odd are you don't win, but that was a team that could have if the bats got hot. Chip and a Chair. The only thing I will counter with that though, I think the leaders in the clubhouse had quit on Baldelli. Lewis, Correa, Jax. The going big comment that everyone is making a bigger deal about that it really is, is dumb in my opinion. He effectively said they would have to thread the needle this year to have a good team. That seems an accurate portrayal. He also stated as currently constructed this isn't a team you go all in with in trades or signings. As of now there isn't anything wrong with that. They gave $20 million to sign prospects, I thought they could build a solid bullpen but it was reliant on 1 high leverage arm, and at this point I am not seeing it with Dominguez off the board going to the White Sox.

He got $20 million to be the White sox Closer. For what was estimated in the $21 million range seems about right.

I was hoping for pin action and another reliever to sign and hoping it was Dominguez. He just signed with the White Sox. Trades are still open but at this point it doesn't appear we are getting any high leverage reliever. Going to ride or die with the young guns. Some of the optimism I expressed in this thread, has faded.

And with that - there went some of the optimism I had. I still think they can end up ok, but we needed a legitimate high leverage reliever to just stabalize the pen. Waiting out has effectively left us with no options really for that roll.

No different than 80% of the other teams. So when we have moderators on here stating the team is a bunch of AAAA players, its offending to the players and its just not accurate. Its a demeaning comment more to go after the front office and ownership. I can guarantee no one would be going up to Wagaman and saying how does it feel to be Falveys new AAAA player. 1st off he is a AAA player most likely with the possibility to be a replacement if we have an injury or underperformance.

I was just getting the Trades, I thought for sure you were talking about Gray, Jackson, Wagaman and Orze. So a player that no other team valued went through waivers we pick up for free, and you want to continue to die on the hill that we just got more back less than a week later seems bizarre. No one else was trading a AA body for him a week ago but suddenly they will now. 🤔 Most AAA depth pieces for teams on the 40 man is AAAA pieces. Pereda, Gray, Julien, Wagaman, Kriedler, Outman, Roden, Jackson Right now I see the bench being Roden, Kriedler (utility), Caratini, Clemens Roden and Wagaman both have upside, more so than Gasper ever did in my opinion. This team is not a ton of AAAA types. Wagaman, Gray both have options which have more value than someone like Brujan. They are depth pieces for AAA if we have an injury. Jackson is odd - as he has no options, has a decent contract, but he is also a back end catcher option, so a desperate team will most likely be willing to trade for him if they run into injuries. I don't see him passing through waivers.

You do realize we just pulled Brujan off of waivers for just the 50k posting fee right? We likely got 100k from the mets because they needed depth in AAA due to their recent trades. The players we have traded for have more upside than Brujan. Beyond that carry on.

I couldn't love this post more. Dominguez is someone the Twins absolutely need at this point. Power arm that has had leverage experience. He would likely be the fireman arm we need. As of now Sands is your next arm and then Funderburk. Topa and Rogers based on the situation. Orze has some upside will have to see what we have there. Then work the young kids in and see if they stick. Of our arms Festa seems to be the best fit for the bullpen. I could also see Matthews being a monster - but would prefer to keep him as a starter.

The statement was if your best years are behind you, implying we are looking for players that will underperform like a Colome and running on prior name recognition. To me we have done the cheap signings in 3 specific areas - 1. SP - absolutely does not work. The only one that was a so-so that worked well later is Martin Perez (holy crap $66 million in career earning). Our Starting pitching and depth is a completely different ball game. We don't have to take chances. 2. 1st baseman - for the most part has worked. Cron 1.6 Solana 1.6 Santana 2.5 France .8 Gallo .5. Morrison -.2. Also Gallo wasn't dumpster diving - that was a $10 million contract. 3. RP (signed acquired) - mixed bag - Pagan (roller coaster), Topa (ok, not great), Stewart (really good when health), Coloumbe (good), Jorge Lopez (ugh), Colome (yuck), Robles (nothing), Clippard (ok). Rodney (decent), Thielbar (really really good, twice) So if we are dumpster diving - 1st base is the place to do it - Starting pitching is an absolute no go - relief pitching seems to work out ok for taking chances.

Because they think this year is a new year, and the fans here have shown they wouldn't tolerate a total teardown. If you want an honest answer. When you have multiple people pissed off even with decent signings, @USAFChief laughing at most of my posts - its clear that people aren't willing to even give them the benefit of the doubt. This won't be the 29th bullpen, it just won't. I personally think our players gave up last season. Jax specifically, Correa another. When key players give up you need a change. Correa was replacement level or below that for us last year. I will take Lee over him straight up. I know laugh now. Even still he is a placeholder for Culpepper, does he make it up in 2026. Jenkins and Rodriguez are the potential energy changers for 2026 in my opinion. People are betting this team doesn't win 60 wins. You know I could take all the bets here, then take the actually over under which is 73.5 right now - before any other moves. Which may bump us to 76 and then I can win the arbitrage. Effectively as Twins fans we are an overly negative bunch right now. Our hitters have consistently underperformed. I do thing better messaging or different points of view is worth trying out and can be effective. Maybe Lewis starts listening and stops trying to pull everything like Correa. Maybe Lee starts to feel comfortable. Yes its maybe, but as bad as things didn't go our way last year, there is a very real possibility things do go this year. As long as Keaschall continues to perform, I think the long term rebuild is still in play. Ive said it before I rooted for the Twins in the late 90's, I knew day in day out we were going to lose. This is still a pretty good team. You have lots of starting depth, we will be running out an ok lineup - with some potential upside. I can see a .500 team with an outside chance at a divisional title. Alas we will see where the chips fall. See this is the type of year, if I was a betting man that I would bet for them to win the division. As to the bullpen - the end of the season is not what we have now. We have - Rogers, Orze, Funderburk Topa and Sands - that is fundamentally better than what we end with. We still have 3 more openings for a signing trade, a AAA signing who outperforms expectations, or a converted starter. How does this look if Festa or Matthews converts and is able to handle the positions like Jax, Varland or Duran before him. We have lots of arms to potentially throw at the problem, more than we ever did in 2017 to 2021 - so yes I am cautiously optimistic that this group will perform better than most expect and I am saying in the 11-20 rankings. Why, you will inevitable have bullpens that under perform or have injuries or teams where the get burned up or give up - that is 4-5. We should have a solid starting staff, plus the AAA invitees we should be able to run up and down including players like ohl or adams if we need to give some players a rest.

1. Won't be playing 3 subpar batters every lineup - I went through Vazquez, Outman, Julien, Fitzgerald, Gasper, I still am not sold on Roden either. We have dumped everyone on the first list except Outman and Julien - and Julien is probably going to get bumped off the 40 man shortly in my opinion. The bullpen we effectively ran with 3 bullpen arms. Sands, Topa, and discovered Funderburk. We have Rogers and Orze and hopefully 1 more signing. I don't mind Ohl as a 7-8 option and I think from the AAA signings and converted starters we can find 1-2 more solid options. The performance will be so much better than what we were throwing in August and September. That staff blew 18 leads - in 55 games. Just crazy stuff. But when you intend to lose you don't care. Ill make a bet with you with the over under being 60.