GM Rankings

[drjim]

So maybe the difference between Ryan and Smith is that Ryan can say no? I would say the main job of a GM is to manage the people below you. Your post does a good job of stating the difference between Ryan and Smith in that regard.

 

Things under Smith were a mess. True he didn't personally do everything himself but he was responsible for it to run correctly.

[ashbury]

Moderator's note: Perhaps this thread has about run it's course anyway, but in keeping with Diehard's earlier request please let's try to keep to a minimum the retrospective on Bill Smith's tenure, as that is just too big a tangent to try to settle here.

[bird]

With a running four year average of 95 losses and 25 games out of first, it kinda makes you wonder how many losses they would've managed with an average GM instead of the best in baseball...

Exactly! Well said!

[bird]

I didn't mean to use the word loyalty as an insult, it seems like a positive trait to me, and nowhere did I refer to it as blind.  I was asking an honest question, and if one single word in the post is going to obfuscate the point, substitute the hot-button word loyalty for "favorable judgment" instead.  My point is that many people seem to stand behind/stand up for non-field personell more than the players.  I tend to be much more loyal to the players, often long after they have proven to be replacable, and I think it's because these are the guys I watch everyday and have grown accustomed to knowing, at least through my TV.  I'm simply curious what drives others to be more inclined to have these sentiments more strongly for managers and front office employees.

Sorry if you took it that I was insinuating anything related to your own point of view. I was just responding to the question on its face value. My own observation is that many many more of us feel a sense of loyalty and connection to the players, which is natural. I've never seen Dave St. Peter do anything awe-inspiring.

 

As I raised my own kids and brought them to games, we occasionally talked about keeping our admiration for the players "between the lines".  And for me personally, having had what I think of as a career filled with challenging managerial decisions, I suppose I have a high level of empathy for guys like Ryan, and even Gardy, and am likely to cut more slack when they inevitably screw something up big time. But loyalty? No, none at all, really.