nicksaviking

There are some nice back of the rotation prospects here though it is still frustrating that this team doesn't produce strikeout pitchers. Rookie League K numbers are always inflated, but many of these guys really crashed in that department this year. It just doesn't seem to make sense, I thought Melotakis, Rogers, Duffy, Summers, Boyd and Lee all threw relativly hard, generally that is the only requirement to make the 20-year olds whiff in A ball. Anyone have any reasonable guess for why the Twins have such difficulty drafting and developing these types of pitchers? I don't want to fall back on the idea that limiting strikeouts is systematicly instructed but at this point that seems to be one of only three options, the other two being bad luck and strikeout-ambivilant scouting. I don't buy bad luck and I don't want to beleive the other two.

Ernie Banks played on mostly terrible, terrible teams. As did Tony Gwynn, as did Walter Johnson. Byron Buxton won't make the Twins a contender on his own and expecting all the prospects to pan out is exactly how a team becomes the Pittsburgh Pirates the previous two decades.

"Fun Stat Kevin Correia's 96 ERA+ is not very exciting. However, only 20 Twins pitchers have surpassed that figure in the last 10 seasons, while throwing at least 167 innings. It's shocking. Here's the list: Johan Santana and his Merry Band of Pitching Men" You know that any list with Carlos Silva on it three times is exclusive company.

An hour? Boy, I hate to bring this up but I have a website for you: https://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Me thinks doth protest too much.

That also gets me in trouble with m wife.

I think you mean the one who shot Robert Redford in The Natural. "Baseball Annie" fan who shot player, inspired movie, dies - Boulder Daily Camera

I had to do a search for the meaning of both of these. Ashbury's got me in trouble with the wife.

I just heard Bremmer say Ryan Pressly and his 5.7 K/9 was a power arm. Sometimes I get the feeling that Dick doesn't actually consult with the team regarding propaganda talking points, I get the feeling that Dick is actually the mastermind. Can I call Bremmer the Joseph Goebbels of the Twins organization without implying the Pohlad's are Hitler? Because I wouldn't feel comfortable going that far.

But why would you even want to try?! This is insane. A team that could contend with Florimon also likley has plus hitters at the other positions. And they'd still look to upgrade at the trade deadline. Also, what does the draft have to do with international free agents? Only one team is getting Turner, what if he goes number three and the Twins are picking 5th? Any GM that passes on free agents based on an assumed draft pick nine months before the draft needs to be fired and banned from baseball for clearly screwing with the integrity of the game.

FYI, defending Ryan by calling his detractors "whiners" and "lazy" itself sounds like lazy whining to our ears. I've stated in every one of my posts today that I wasn't neccisarily advocating to sign Guerrero; if he can't play SS, I'm not interested, though I imagine the reports about the absolute impossibility of him playing there are way overblown. I've simply been refuting the rediculous notion that he is too expensive for the Twins and they shouldn't dare bid against the dreaded Dodgers. It's this kind of signing (if SS is a possibility) that makes sense though. I don't understand your thinking on these international players. It seems to me Ryan and his supporters are waiting on free agency until a reasonably priced, can't-miss player comes available that the other 29 teams mysteriously pass on. How can you argue the Twins can't compete against the Dodgers on a low per year deal for Guerrero and also state you think Ryan will be able to get the safer and more valued Tanaka? He'll have to compete against a ton of teams for Tanaka and pay a posting fee, good luck. If the conservative Twins are going to make a splash in the international market, they're going to have to go after a guy with question marks, they're not going to get the sure bet top of the rotation arm and I'm not sure how your convincing yourself otherwise. Additionally, at this point I'd much rather trust the Dodgers scouts regarding international players. They've figured out Asia and Cuba better than the Twins have.

You're not serious? No middle infield upgrades are needed because of Florimon and Santana? And the Twins will get which SS in the draft? We can't assume the Twins are going to be in the position to draft, let's at this point assume, Turner and Gatewood. Who knows if those two will even have the same helium at draft time next year even if the Twins are in position. Plenty of guys fall on their faces the year before their draft eligibility. I'd prefer pitching, but that likely also includes the top ten pick the Twins will have next year. Once again, I'm not saying the Twins need to sign Guerrero, but it would not impact the payroll much. Only for the Twins is a $4.5-6 million dollar commitment a big money contract.

Then you've made the Dodgers spend more than they wanted to. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be a bonus. Inflate their payroll and the amount they pay into the revenue sharing pot. I don't see what's dangerous about it, at some point you stop your bid if the Dodgers make it obscene, but it's not like $4.5-5 million a year is ever going to cripple the budget even if you're wrong. Again, I'm not saying the Twins needed to sign him, just saying he is almost certainly well within their ability and comfort zone.

So the hypothetical situation is where the Dodgers and Twins both offered the same money and he chose the Dodgers? Duh, no one is claiming in that situation he would not pick the Dodgers due to the bigger market, the willingness to spend to win and the extra endorsement opportunities. It's not equal situations, so the Twins need to spend more, which they can if they want. So if his deal is $32 million for seven years with the Dodgers, the Twins need to offer $36 for seven years, or even better, $32 for six years. I'm not saying the Twins need to sign him, I'm just saying it is not impossible to outbid the big markets as you imply. The money is there.

The possibility of surgery and the possibility of pitching in the Domincan Winter League don't seem to mesh. Obviously if he needs surgery winter league should be off the table, but if surgery is ruled out and R&R is perscribed, wouldn't you want him avoiding pitching this offseason?

Yeah, Law was oddly critical of him on draft day considering he was a 4th round pick. Plenty of teams are over drafting by this point of the draft, though plenty of draft wonks liked Gonsalves and in fact had him going much higher. His dislike of a relatively well known high school arm going in the 4th round almost seemed personal. Playing amature psychologist, I wonder if Gonsalves' attitude rubbed Law the wrong way which in turn influenced his opinion even if unconciously. Otherwise wouldn't his opinion of a percieved 4th round bust simply be "What else is new?"

I've said multiple times I won't blame Ryan if he signs a quality free agent who flops. I just want to see the he has the fortitude to do so. Unless we're talking a $100 million, it won't damage the rebuild at all and I'd congratulate him on finally growing a pair. Correia? Maybe equal to his contract. Maybe. Pelfrey? Are you kidding? It's a nice 11 game stretch but that's moot. Pelfrey's early season incompetence is a huge reason why the Twins found themselves in such a huge hole to start the season. The season's over and no matter what he does from now on out he cannot make up for the terrible position his poor pitching put the club early on. Let's say he IS worth his $4 million, the starts that would be worth that cash would have all come long after the Twins' season was lost, his early season games would surely be considered negative value. With the Twins out of the playoff hunt since May, if a quality free agent came available in July would the Twins even consider signing him for $4 million in a lost season?

So are you saying the scouts saw upside in Correia and Pelfrey, or they saw no upside in any free agents? Either way they were wrong. Time to hire a data team comparable to the rest of the league so free agent reliance isn't nearly 100% on the scouts.

Right, but as you already acknowledged, I did not say top, I said middle. And if the middle tier pitchers won't come to Minnesota because they are not showing a stronger desire to win based on their commitment to the free agent market, well there is a clear solution for that. I would be zero disappointed in Ryan right now if he had shown some guts and signed a pitcher with upside who ended up failing. Every indication is that Ryan thinks making a mistake on a decent sized free agent deal will be the end of the organization. It won't, and not even close. Just do it damn it. Once. Now. So what if you miss, it cannot possibly harm the club any more than the inaction has harmed it. At least most of us would applaud the effort.

But why sign Pelfrey? Because of the familiarity? There will be plenty of other options, the Twins don't have to settle for him simply because they already have uniforms with his name on them. This familiarity stuff has aided largely to the stagnation in this organization in my opinion. Not enough coaching, front office, scouting or player turnover occurs considering all the areas in need of repair. No one wants to reach outside of their comfort zone unless their back is against the wall. I don't think a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush when the bird lays an egg like the Twins have been doing three years running.

That's the issue though. Why was he looking at the bottom of the pile in the first place when he had yet to grab a needed asset from the middle? Note I didn't say top.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that this is HOW the Twins opporate. Speaking for myself at the very least, I disagree that this is how the Twins SHOULD opporate. For the record, I agree with you and think the Twins are likely to seriously consider re-signing Pelfrey. I just will be disappointed once again that they will not get a higher caliber arm.

I don't agree that Pelfrey has been a disaster, well at least not lately, but it's not a question about Pelfrey replacing Worley or Deduno or whoever else from the Twins roster. It's a question about signing Pelfrey instead of acquiring external options A, B or C.

I like Arcia in the outfield, I don't need Gold Glovers the corner spots if the CF is rangy. If he shows diminished skills over the years then I say move him but he's too young to give up on. If the outfield gets crowded by offensive talent then it's time to discuss a move, but Buxton and Kepler are still a ways out and Kepler may get the 1B gig anyway. Moving Arcia to 1B and Rosario to the OF seems to take away positional value to me.

I'd take Pelfrey over must of the rubbish currently the Twins have to offer. But that isn't the scenario. Pelfrey is the only free agent out of the garbage bag called the Twins rotation. Is Pelfrey better than Worley currently? Yes. But that's not the point, the Twins need a better class of pitcher. Pelfrey is not a better class of pitcher, he's simply one of the better students in the GED class that the Twins roll out every year. He throws hard but doesn't strike anyone out. Not interested. Most quality teams suffer only one or two starters who aren't able to put up a 7.0 K/9. The Twins, well, we all know the situation. Starting now, they need to exclusively sign starters who can at least be league average when it comes to putting the ball in the catchers glove as opposed to the gloves of the terrible defenders behind them. Hard to do? Tough, get it done just like nearly every other team, or find someone else who can.