wsnydes

Though, if you're going to say that he is a starting pitcher, now is the time to let him figure out how to get through the middle innings. I don't really have an issue with that at this point in the season.

I think that I understand what RB is trying to say, and I agree with some of it. I agree with the notion that it takes Molitor too long to make adjustments sometimes. In my view, it did take Molitor too long to take Dozier out of the leadoff spot. Then he basically doubled down by dropping him to the middle of the order. As much as I still don't get why Grossman is on the roster, he probably should have been playing more than Morrison at DH. This would especially be the case if Morrison's hip was indeed bothering him all season long. You've got to ride your horses, that goes for the bullpen too, but I think that he can do a better job of finding places to rest guys. There's no reason to bring Pressly into a 5 run game, save him for high leverage situations. As much as Dozier likes to play every day, even he's got to get to a point where the mental break of a day off would be rejuvenating. Riding your horses to the point of being ineffective is counterproductive. I can't go along with the LaMarre over Buxton bit though. Buxton needs to play as much as he can at that point.

Bautista led off for a while in Toronto too, I believe. It really isn't all that uncommon.

Fantastic book. I also recommend.

I would hope that Molitor's fate relies on more than just a W/L record. There are circumstances that are beyond a managers control that influence that. I would hope that the decision makers look at things that directly correlate to those things that a manager does have an impact on. Some of these things we can't know fully as fans, like how his players respond to him. Other things we can know more fully, like how the team plays fundamentally. At the end of the day, it's not the losing that bothers me. It's how they lose. I can handle getting beat by a team that was simply better that particular day. What drives me nuts is when they lose because they're wasting outs on the base paths, or fail to understand how to execute situational baseball plays. Beating yourself like this team often does is what bothers me. Sloppy play is correctable. Good teams will have those kinds of games now and then, but bad teams do it far more frequently. There's been a lot of it this season and over Molitor's tenure.

I don't expect the Twins to be able to rebuild as quickly as the Cubs, but I would expect the states of the respective franchises to be much closer than they currently are by now. That would especially be true since the Cubs basically did take the mid-market rebuild approach. One is a perennial WS threat and the other is mired in mediocrity and currently a complete mess. I don't think they need to start over at this point, but they're teetering on pretty thin ice. I guess that I'd argue that TR never tore anything down. He kept virtually every tradable asset and continued to sign backside of prime players to multiyear deals. They drafted and developed talent poorly despite having the "benefit" of losing 90+ games in 5 of 6 seasons. They've been treading water since 2011. I would consider a rebuild to be complete when the team has a sustained run of quality play and multiple deep runs into the playoffs. This team isn't even close to satisfying either of those requirements. Edit: I really don't want to hijack this thread and make it about TR...

How have the directions of the two teams gone since 2014? The Cubs have a WS ring and are a perennial contender. The Twins have a single playoff game appearance (in which they got shelled), a 100 loss season and haven't been able to show that they can build off of the previous seasons success despite have a similar core group of players. What I will grant you is that we likely have different definitions of rebuilding. Signing past their prime veterans to fill in a veteran roster mostly void of young talent while languishing at the bottom of a bad division and not trading away the few assets that they do have for most of a decade does not constitute a rebuild in my view. It may fit yours, but it doesn't fit mine.

I'm on this boat and it's far too early to proclaim anybody right or wrong. The 2018 season isn't even over yet.

I'm on the "incomplete" bandwagon. There are things that I like and there are things I don't. By all appearances they've done a good job with the draft and I like how they're operating the farm system. They appear to be moving prospects up quickly when they've shown that they're no longer challenged. I did like the last offseason moves as a whole. No single move really excited me, but as a whole I feel they did a solid job. I think it's too early to see how many of their personnel moves are panning out. I loved how they decided on a direction at his years deadline and stuck with it. The decisiveness was good to see even though the direction of it was difficult to swallow. Even so, I feel they made the right decision. Things I don't like would include roster decisions and coaching decisions. The sloppiness on the field has to be attributed to the field staff's inability to get it cleaned up. Ultimately that reflects on Molitor, but if his assistants aren't getting the job done than changes need to be made. I can see why they wouldn't be made during the season, but that is where Molitor needs to step in and help. If he's not doing that or is ineffective in doing so himself, then a change there would also be necessary. I do think that this offseason will be a big one for them as it relates to the big league team. Organization wide, I think they're doing a pretty good job but they may be lacking at the big league level. Those balance out in my view. Rome wasn't built in a day, but I do need to see improvement at the big league level before I can get firmly behind this FO.

Right, that's what I found interesting about it. I wouldn't have guessed any of that. Carew has the batting title named after him for a reason, that is for sure. I'm one that finds context like this very fascinating anyway. It's a decent way to look at player performance across generations and still get a sense of what's actually been accomplished. You can go deeper if you choose to, but you don't necessarily need to.

I'm going ignore the ongoing debate here and just point out that I find these two paragraphs interesting. That is all.

Buxton is still considered to be a cornerstone player for this franchise. Cave took advantage of his extended time and showed that he at least belongs on the roster next season. Buxton at least showed what he could do at the plate in the 2nd half of last season. Cave hasn't approached that level of play offensively or defensively. Buxton still has plenty to prove however.

I interpreted your comment that I responded to initially to mean that even if Molitor advocated for Grossman and then the FO didn't go out and find an upgrade anyway that it's the FO's fault and he had no culpability. That's what I was responding to, not that the FO "stuck" Molitor with Grossman. But based on your comment, I respectfully disagree that it's not reasonable to believe that you were okay with Molitor advocating for Grossman since you appeared to heap all of the blame onto the FO. Your response to my initial comment would seem to back that up with the Clarence Darrow reference. You may not have intended to infer that, but that's how I interpreted it. Even rereading our exchange, I still don't believe it to be unreasonable considering your words. I really don't have any interest in going down the "I meant this or that" rabbit hole. Fact of the matter is that I believe that Molitor essentially "stuck" Molitor with Grossman. If Molitor wouldn't play him, he'd be gone. Does the FO have culpability in that decision, yes they do. Neither party is completely without blame in any roster decisions, including this particular one. But I was not responding to anything regarding anyone being "stuck" with Grossman or any particular player, simply that Molitor wouldn't have any culpability in decision gone bad regarding a player that he advocated for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Much like I hope the FO and Molitor are. Unfortunately I don't believe that, but I hope that I'm wrong. Plus, if they're on the same page I can legitimately blame all of them.

Exactly. I expect Molitor to have plenty of say in roster decisions. The FO has ultimate decision making power, but it makes little sense for them to make a move without consulting their manager. I have a very hard time believing that Belisle was brought in by only the FO for instance. If I were the GM, I want to know that who I want to bring in will be well received and that the manager knows how he wants to use said player. That goes with Grossman too. I don't believe that Molitor feels that he's stuck with him. I believe that Molitor is asking for guys like Belisle. He may have good reasoning, clubhouse presence or whatever, but that doesn't absolve the FO from culpability when things go astray either. Obviously since we don't have the inside knowledge to know who is making what decision based on what info, the FO takes the heat rightfully. But I'm not in the camp that feels that Molitor is blameless with any of it, especially when it comes to the roster that heads north out of spring training. ***Edited for spelling.

Fair enough and well put. I'd add that if I have an employee that actually advocates for something they already have, I'm not going to replace it with something else. I'd certainly shoulder much of the blame in that case, but the employee wouldn't be without fault either. I'm not suggesting they should be fired over it, but it's certainly something that would be discussed. I think the Belisle stuff is because there is simply no other reason to bring him back. None. Since he was a favorite of Molitor last year, it seems reasonable to suggest that he wanted him back. Does the FO share the blame, certainly. Obviously we don't know what transpired, so one can only look at the FO.

That's certainly the vibe you put out with your comment. I'm simply reacting to what you typed. I don't put much blame on Molitor for roster construction, but I find it hard to believe that he has no input. The two entities should be on the same page and working together, not independent of each other. It's a team sport, and the team does extend beyond the personnel on the field. They all hold responsibility for what happens on the field. Each is simply a different cog in the machine. If Molitor was advocating for a player, why would the FO take the time and effort to replace a guy the manager was happy with? Certainly not all of the blame goes to Molitor, but some most certainly has to in that scenario.

Agreed, but his scenario included Molitor not wanting to upgrade either. So why does he not share in the blame in that scenario?

But you're okay with Molitor advocating for him? Seems like both would share blame in that scenario.

I guess that's part of my argument. Why wouldn't you maximize the few opportunities you do have? It's difficult to win scoring just one run and the odds are only marginally better than getting shut out, so why not try to score as many as you can? You're right though, this does get too much attention. Far bigger issues with this club.

So shouldn't you try to maximize scoring chances instead of playing for one run an inning? It's one thing if it were late in the game, but the 4th inning isn't late in the game.

CreativityinModeration

I think this mentality is a lot easier these days. I know that it is for me. Players typically don't stay in one place very long, so its harder to grow a lot of sentimentality for a player. Mauer is one of those rarer players that has only played with one team his whole career (thus far). I do think there is something to be said about a player staying "home" and playing their whole career with one team, but it's got to end at some point. I'd rather see him retire than put on another uniform, but it's more that I'd rather him hang up his spikes before there's obviously nothing left. Go out on your own terms rather than being forced from the game.

It's almost like the supporting cast around him got worse as time went on...

I keep waffling back and forth on this. Part of me really wants to keep watching him play, but the other part of me wants him to go out while he's not just hanging on by a thread. It's always sad to me to watch former stars hang on to the bitter end as a shell of their former selves. I'd prefer Joe not to hit that point and go out with grace.