Jokin, You did see my apology, right? As I didn't mean to come off as severe as you apparently thought, and I chose the word convoluted carefully as the discussion was branching into, IMO, a lot of unknown hypotheticals about long term contracts and trade results. It was my stance that at the time, they weren't doing/getting much of either for the players listed. I'll agree that's a problem within the organization but it isn't/wouldn't have been unique to Ortiz's had he stayed with the Twins. I don't disagree with anything you said about the Twins or even disagree that the Ortiz handling was a mistake. My opinion is that while by itself it may have been a horrible one it doesn't go as far as franchise ruining or killing, as was mentioned earlier. But, I'd agree that it is symptomatic of some poor organizational practices.