diehardtwinsfan

I missed something, but after 2013 will it have been 5 years that they need to be protected?

wow... getting abused on the pitch counts a but, but if he keeps that up, he'll get drafted high.

If he doesn't need to be added to the 40 man until 2015, I don't see him coming up to the majors unless he's here to stay.

I don't get the skepticism on Parmelee's bat. He OPSd 1.1 at AAA as a 24 year old in follow up to a break out season in AA the year past. He also walked as often as he struck out during that run. I'm not expecting him to put up MVP numbers, but to think that he could be league average or better than that as a first baseman is hardly unreasonable.

Problem number 1 is that a number of those guys will also have to be extended at that point. Problem number 2 is that stastically speaking, a good chunk of them will fail. Hope you are right, but odds are good a number of those guys will not be worth keeping.

I kind of wonder if this is the org spin piece essentially saying he has the job.. Given the season is likely lost, letting him hold the place warm until one of Hicks or Benson shows they are ready in Rochester isn't a bad idea.

I don't see your statement as criticism, as yes, this is all hindsight. I'm just suggesting that an extra year of service time for Mauer could have very realisticly pushed all of those items back one year, thus saving the team a bit of cash. Given TF opening up, I don't think Mauer's contract has really hamstrung the team, nor do I see that happening over the next 3-4 years either as they are going to have mostly pre-arb guys playing for them... Now with a rash of guys who will be hitting arb come 2017-2020, there may be good reason to attempt to cost control some of them, especially at a time when the season is considered lost. If the Twins are smart, they'll do what the Indians did in the 90s and lock up the young promising ones through their arb years and into FA by a year or two. Having that extra year will definitely help them with those terms.

I think you can make a case that it did with Mauer. He was called up and hurt his knee almost immediately at which point he hit the 60 day DL and acrewed service time for all of 2004 without playing much of it. Had he had that injury in AAA, Mauer wouldn't have needed to be reupped after the 2009 season but after the 2010, which would have saved the franchize a lot of money... The flip side is whether leaving in AAA in 2004 would have "burned" Mauer enough that he would have said good bye. I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to it. But there's no question that decision cost the Twins a ton of cash. The issue with service time is simply a business decision, and I have a tough time seeing where it would hurt them unless the player is obviously ready. There definitey have been cases in the past (such as Bartlett and Cuddyer) where a player was kept down when they appeared to be a clear upgrade over what was in place. Those teams were competitive as well, which soured a lot of fans. In Gibson's case, a good spring does not mean he's ready, and while I tend to agree that he's probably one of the best five pitchers now, he's on what is likely a last place team. You can look at his AAA numbers and see room for improvement, and asking that he pitch in limited innings out of Rochester during the beginning of the season is not unreasonable. In that, I kind of see this both ways. The Twins should be a pretty consistent competitor from 2015 to 2020. The downside is that everyone is going to get pretty expensive come 2018-2020. Having that extra year of control on a few of these guys might allow them to control some costs better or perhaps trade someone for something of value at a position of need.

I'm beginning to think we need to resurrect the BYTO downs forum.

Barring injuries, offense should be better than that. There are plenty of guys on it who should be performing at or better than league average for their position... pitching and defense on the other hand...

See Arcia, Oswaldo.

It strikes me more as unjustifiable optimism. That project was an MVP season. I like the guys coming through, but you have to be reasonable about what they may be. Kab's numbers showed it, and those numbers would look like that for most team's players. On that list, only Morneau was one where I kind of wonder if his would have been different had the concussion not happened.

I posted this exact thing on a previous page... Mid-june also avoids super 2.

for some reason I remember it being the BB/9 in particular that improved. Looking at the numbers, I see a guy that is pretty good but then has "that game" where he gets absolutely shelled.

There are a lot of hypothetical "ifs" in that statement. The switch to 2nd was great if for no other reason than that 2nd is a postion of need in this org where CF is clearly not. Even if he hadn't switched, he's been moving up the ranks 1 level per year, which is a pretty normal pace. Staying in center would not have changed that.

It has nothing to do with beingn on the DL, and everything to do with sending him down. Perkins got optioned, hence the grievance. JJ Hardy was also optioned. The team can only keep them down in the minors for so long when rehabbing an injury without optioning them. After that point, they either get called up or optioned. If Gibson tears his UCL in May in Minnesota, he's going to accumulate ML service time until the Twins can option him. If he does it in Rochester, he won't.

If Gibson makes the roster opening day, he will be Twins property from 2013-2018. He will have 3 years of serfdom making approximateliy 500k/yr and 3 years of arbitration. If Gibson gets promoted on May 1, he's Twins property from 2013-2019. he will also likely be a Super 2 meaking he has 3 years of serfdom and 4 years of arbitration. If Gibson gets promoted between June and July, he essentially ends up with 4 years of serfdom and 3 years of arb. You cannot say with a straight face that there isn't value in that... especially if he season is lost. The big downside, as I see it is some players know they are essentially being held back for that additional control. In the case of Gibson, he's not a lock to make the rotation, and for all intents and purposes, the season is lost (unless someone honestly thinks Gibson is the difference between playing in October or staying home). And while his peripherals prior to the injury were quite good, he wasn't exactly destroying AAA either. I agree that this is a much bigger deal if it's a Boras client who you know will leave, but it's still a big deal. This has nothing to do with Gibson being good enough or not. It has everything to do with getting an extra year of cost controlled player that will either make for a cheaper long term contract, give you more leverage in buying out some years, or make the player an attractive trade option.

The point in people's response is that this makes no sense for Rosario much less the team's better business interests. If Eddie gets called up, he's likely not going to impress. He's going to have to do a ton of learning on the job that could be done slowly over a few years on a normal development curve. He might shine, but he's more likely to struggle mightly, and there's a very real possibility he doesn't recover. Not to mention that he only has a year of defense at his position (and didn't play it well). Do you really think Gardy is going to trot him out every day when he's making errors on routine plays? Do you think fans will suddenly develop patience for the guy when this happens? There's a huge difference between A+ (where he should be) and MLB... for one, this will the first year he starts seeing MLB quality breaking pitches on a consistent basis.

um... no he wouldn't.

I'm still trying to figure out how paying Thome 1M to be a power hitter off the bench is going to be a horrible decision for the future... I think Thome could singlehandedly win a few close/late games with a late inning HR, but beyond that, how? He isn't blocking anyone other than possibly sending Butera to AAA... and that's hardly a loss.

I missed the part where Slama was even given a shot.

I really like Benson, and I desparately hope last season was a fluke, but I think those projections (especially right away) are a bit over the top. He owns a career minor league BA of .258 and his break out seasons saw averages of .285 and .294. I do think he can hit like Cuddy as a ceiling (with obviously better defense), but he's also one of those players who Ks a bit too much and seems to have issues with the tool between his ears. I hope I'm wrong there, but I get the impression that he has trouble letting go of bad performances and that can cause for some nasty cycles. I could see him winning the job and never looking back, and I could see him struggling in Rochester all season too... Just too volatile.

His peripherals were actually fairly good, though there was a very noticable drop the last few starts before the diagnosis that skewed the stats a bit. I do agree that he could use some time to season. The Twins will end up with an extra year of time too, which certainly won't make them complain.

He played in Beloit last year, not New Brittian. No question he has a higher offensive ceiling, but that's pushing it.

If you want to talk about moves that puts fans in seats, signing Thome is that... and given his abilities, he could win a few games during those late inning pinch hits as well. I see no harm in doing this other than a slightly lower draft spot next year... and you could argue that he'd be a great mentor for some of the younger guys.