gunnarthor

I haven't really paid attention to the Giants disfunction this season but, man, they are hurting. What a mess. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/47171872/giants-rookie-abdul-carter-benched-again-start-game

No gif for the Iliad. You'll have to make do with the author.

They lost in the playoffs because they couldn't adjust to pressure up the middle and the refs called a fumble a forward pass. It had nothing to do with "identity." And your logic doesn't work - we lost because we don't have an identity but you picked the Lions as a team with an identity that also got bounced in the playoffs and would currently miss the playoffs this year. Guess they don't have an identity. As to KAM, I think it's a good thing that the GM and coaches are in sync. We saw Speilman give Zimmer a QB he didn't want and how that relationship blew apart. We don't want that. I suspect that was a big part of the hiring process - to find a GM who would work well with his coaches (that he'd hire). The idea that the GM has to be a blue blood football guy is getting dated. KAM was hired to run a billion dollar enterprise, supervise hundreds of staff, and push the owners agenda forward. I do agree that picking 5th instead of 20th makes it easier to draft a franchise QB. And if by tear down you mean tank, sure. You're more likely to draft 5th. But tanking doesn't really work. Any given Sunday and all. You just end up alienating your players and fan base for the hope that this time it'll work. And that hope is being engineered by guys who can't win in the NFL. I'd rather the idiot savants we have keep getting chances, rather than attempting to tank.

Just saw the replay. Man, ugly.

Kraft looks like Waternoose, too

Another one?

Yeah, pretty much. https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/new-vp-of-football-ops-kwesi-adofo-mensah-knows-what-it-takes-to-win-ready-to-wo

Again, you're just not right. KAM doesn't do the drafting, he doesn't have the scouting background. He listens to his coaches. This isn't Zimmer fighting with Speilman, which I think is a good thing. We know that KAM signed Rodgers and AVG specifically because Flores wanted them, Flores wanted Turner so KAM made a call to get him. We know that he traded for Theilan because KOC wanted him. We know he drafted Felton because McCardell wanted him, etc. He doesn't make the draft decisions in a vacuum. He listens to what his coaches want. As to the results, you've chosen to ignore the reality of draft success rates, called Turner a bust, and are now complaining that the 2025 draft isn't doing enough. Again, not sure what you expected, you don't want to live in reality. Jackson has started every game he's been healthy for. TID is playing about 30% of the defensive snaps, which seems good for a raw 5th rounder. As for Felton, his production seems more or less in line with what the Vikings envisioned - " ‘Hey, man, you got me thinking now. If I get a chance, I’m going to fight to get you.’ He can play special teams and do a lot of things to help us as a team, first, and then as a receiver. I think he’s going to be a good Viking for a long time.”" They knew he'd be able to do stuff on ST and being a receiver would come along. Sounds like the coaches had a good understanding. You might disagree with it but that seems logical. You also didn't answer the basic question - how do you know the drafting is the problem and not the development? As to identity, the issue is your perception. A team doesn't accidentally win at a .600+ clip for four years without being good. You think they're soft, whatever. A month ago Lions fans were bitching that the Vikings punched them in the mouth. Lastly, the "tear downs" you are referencing weren't planned in some great degree. It was "we're bad until we draft a QBOTF." The Bengals didn't decide to trade players for picks, they actually traded back to help the Bills get Allen. And the Bills didn't tank to get Allen. They just wanted him, moved up and got him. Smart decision but again no tear down. (I'd also be quite happy if the Vikings targeted a QB and traded up to get him, which, of course, they did).

I think Flores stays unless he gets a HC job elsewhere. But I think that the offensive line coach, QB coach, offensive coordinator, and the ST coordinator are all likely gone for different reasons. I like Nick's idea about bringing in someone like Zac Taylor to help run the offense.

No. This is mostly just wrong. 1) Honest question, why do you think the drafts have been bad as opposed to it being something else - either coaching or development? Ingram and Blackmon were both 2nd round picks that are starting elsewhere and looking better. Are we sure we made a bad pick or was our coaching/development unable to get those players to perform better? 7 out of the 10 picks made in 2022 are still playing, just on other teams. As a point made in another post, we've seen a number of our o-lineman leave and be better and the ones we've brought in seem worse - Kelly, Fries, and even Skule this year. Because if your plan is fire KAM becasue the drafts have been bad, you really aren't doing anything. He doesn't make the picks, the guys who do are still here. 2) I'm not sure it lacked an identity. This year has been bad QB play and a weak o-line but we've gone 38-25 for a reason - they are an explosive downfield offense with a strong chaotic defense. Those are identities. 3) None of these are tear it all down rebuilds. Washington, Denver, and NE sucked until they got their QBOTF. Washington sucks again. Indy has had one good year - this one - with a Darnold like replacement and have failed with guys like Wentz, Minshew, and Richardson. That's literally the situation you and others complain about. The NFL doesn't have tear it down rebuilds. It doesn't happen. The Browns and Jets have tried it. They'll do it again. That's why KAM/KOC is so surprising. They've had a .600 winning percentage without a franchise QB. That's really hard to do.

That's basically right. If he looks like healthy Joe Burrow these next five games, great. If not, they have to bring in a free agent vet to compete for the job, like Jones/Richardson in Indy. (If the team thinks JJ can't play after watching these last five games, they can also just move on and draft a QB to sit behind the vet). There are going to be real options - Mariota, Wentz, Cousins, Willis, etc. None of them solve the QBOTF issue but they raise the floor. The other major issues are 1) we need a new offensive line coach. The line has been bad for too long. It's time to move on. 2) I really think KOC needs another offensive mind to push him on play calling and schemes. I don't know if that means giving up play calling or just bringing in new elements and philosophies but he's having trouble adjusting (to his credit, I think he's had some good games this year but usually he made those adjustments in the week leading up to the game, not on game day). I don't know who that person should be but I want them not to be from the McVay line of coaches. New thoughts.

Yep, nearly a 50m cap hit if they trade him. But, as Nick alluded to elsewhere in this thread, if the issue is getting Jefferson his yards, they can bring back Wentz or sign someone like Mariota. That's a different issue than finding the franchise QB.

What does pull the plug mean? Start Brosmer again? Find some QB on the street? They only have one real option - start JJ and go from there. And isn't the Trey Lance situation the exact opposite of what you've been clamoring for? They had their Sam Darnold under contract - Jimmy G - who played well but they named Lance the starter in 2022 anyway. He immediately got hurt for the season and, after Jimmy G got hurt again, Brock Purdy led them to the NFC Championship game. Not really the same situation the Vikes have.

He played 6 plays on defense but played on ST units. He's a restricted free agent so we can either get a draft pick or match the offer, IIRC. I could see him coming back as depth but not as a starter.

How many QBs can the Browns draft?

I'd be thrilled if he turned it around. Seems like that's the best case scenario, actually. I don't know if I was clear but I meant the Vikes could get one of the three QBs, not necessarily the third one.

This season?

Fries was pretty bad, I thought. Skule and Brandel did well, all things considered. Kelly went out and Jurgens replaced him. Generally, the o-line wasn't great but they have had worse games. The rushing yards were mostly garbage time stats though. Early, we couldn't run at all.

There's 5 games left. They need to let JJ start all of them so we know what he is, one way or the other. If he's putrid, we have a top 5 pick and they can draft one of the 3 QBs and re-sign Wentz so we have a qb that can get JJ his yards and the new draft pick can develop behind him.

You and I sort of agree - I thought Cousins was a good QB for us but he was pretty polarizing. I like Darnold, a lot. But there was no scenario where he was coming back after the last two games. Giving the team to JJ was a risky bet but after they drafted him, it had to happen at some point. I don't think it's fair to compare the Vikings to a handful of years with the Rams and Eagles where both had their franchise QB in-house. The Vikings are trying to find theirs.

The Vikings haven't had a lot of laughter seasons though. Not sure what team meets your criteria.

Last interception was a good reason why Brosmer isn't the answer. The ball just didn't get there.

Nailor is fun

Go back to the course

Olson is a pretty good announcer