USAFChief

Well, start with that. I thought May would make a fine addition to the pen, but since he isn't being used, send him back to Rochester and let him start. Or put him back in the rotation, and put Pelfrey in the pen and USE him as a short reliever. But don't just put May in the pen and let him sit there, not helping an obvious weakness. Boyer...frankly I don't care what they do with him. Release, DFA, whatever. Just stop using him as a short reliever. And as noted, Fien has an option. Although if he didn't, frankly, again, I wouldn't care if he was lost in an effort to improve the pen options. But for heaven's sake...do SOMEthing.

Add Nolasco to the deal and there's the salary relief, while giving CO a potentially useful piece rather than just shipping dollars off.

A massive risk? You've said you don't like their chances anyway. ..what's the risk? And this keeps getting left out. ..Tulowitzki is not a 2 month rental

It's important, I think to differentiate between true "rent a player" deadline deals and other types of deadline deals. In some of these cases, viewing the trade solely in terms of the year the deal was made undervalues the trade. In regards to the above, several of the players you listed provided value to the team acquiring him after the season in question. David Price is still a Tiger, providing value and will bring back a piece or two if they deal him. Hunter Pence is still a Giant (and has won 2 WS as a Giant, not 1.) It's also important to consider what the teams gave up, too, I think. Just to pick one example...Pence cost the Giants their number 2 rated (by BA) prospect, AA C Tommy Joseph (has yet to appear in a major league game), P Seth Rosin (yes, the one from MN), who has 6 big league innings to date, and OFer Nate Schierholz. Think the Giants regret giving up that haul? Prospects are great, we all love 'em. But the reality is, most of em don't end up worth a hill of beans. Berrios is a nice prospect, but the chances the Twins seriously regret losing him down the road are not that high. Gibson is a decent MLB pitcher, and he might actually get better...but he's 28, and the chances of that aren't great. A Tulo trade has a very good chance of filling one need, and filling it well, for the next several years. Not just 2015. That might not happen, but then again Buxton might never be a good, healthy big leaguer, either. I'd let either Gibson or Berrios form that basis of that trade 100 times out of 100.

The whole aging curve, decline phase thing has gotten out of hand. Good/ great players don't often fall off a cliff. They tend to stay productive, well into their 30s. It's average/below average players that tend to crater. They start with fewer skills, and lower talent, and small changes due to aging drop them further below average, since they had such a tenuous grip on MLB ability to start with.

oh, he reached base all right. He just didnt linger long at any of em.

Both valid points. Like I said, I've been wrong before. And I certainly agree Santana's play to date has been...suboptimal, to put it kindly.

Just wanted to say I appreciate the spirited but respectful debate in this thread. Great work on the thread starter! AndLots of good posts on all sides of the equation. TD is a great place, even when we're debating something we'd all privately admit has virtually no chance of happening. My two cents.

I'd be extremely happy if both Buxton and Sano were better than Tulo in 2017. I just wouldn't bet on it. I wouldn't bet on either being better, much less both. BTW, if we aren't winning a championship in 2017 with Tulo as the best player, how the heck are we winning one if he's not even on the team?

He has poor range, a mediocre arm, and a lack of athleticism. I don't see him as "very solid." In my opinion, of course. I've been wrong before. On the other hand, it's clear the Twins have been reluctant to give him an extended run at SS.

A sweetheart deal for Sano would be cheap over the next five years, and the Twins can afford both. Easily. A deal for Buxton, too, if necessary. As for the question, I'd rather have Tulo and Sano over the next five years than Gibson and Sano and whatever the Twins do with the extra money.

No, this argument also includes the remaining years on Tulo's contract. He's not going to retire this winter. It confuses me the "play for 2017, not 2015" proponents are opposed to this idea. There's an excellent chance Tulo would be the Twins best player in 2017.

Gibson is having a better year than Radke ever did? Do not concur.

Concur. Except about Gibson...I'd rather give up Berrios. But I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker if the Rockies insisted on Gibson.

Maybe safe to say, maybe not. He's been a 5 WAR player in 5 of the last 6 seasons, including 2014.

Forgive my ignorance...isn't WAR advertised as context, league, and park neutral? Perhaps that explains not finding home/road WAR splits.

I would certainly agree it'd be better to keep Gibson and still acquire Tulo. But IMO that wouldn't be a deal breaker. And I might be in the minority, but Im not the least bit interested in winning the "WAR per dollar spent" championship. Or the "wins per payroll dollar" championship. I want the actual one. I don't see the Twins getting one by hoarding cheap players. I want good players. Tulo is still one of those, and the whole "decline phase" meme has gotten completely out of hand. He's 30. Good baseball players have usually stayed good into their mid 30s since the 1800s, and will continue to do so.

First...Tulo replaces Danny Santana/Eduardo Escobar, May replaces Gibson. You don't think that's better than current team? Second...We both know using WAR is problematic at best, but Gibson is a 3 WAR player, and Tulowitski is a 1.6 WAR player? C'mon Brock. Third...instant gratification? Tulo is not a rental. Concur with WTF, though.

"When the Twins optioned Danny Santana to Triple-A in early June, they were making a commitment to Eduardo Escobar at shortstop" They were? He didnt start three consecutive games at SS during Santana’s absence. (He still hasn't, all year.) I think it's pretty clear the Twins don't view Escobar as capable of playing SS every day. FWIW, I concur. If he gets the job, my guess is he won't hold it. Santana has been disappointing, no doubt...but I think he's got a better chance of being a good SS than Escobar.

Hey, just checkin' in. What time's the Twins game start tonight?

Do you think the Twins will sign an ace in free agency if they DON'T have Tulowitzki on the roster?

Maybe so. Doubtful, IMO, but maybe so. But that's not directly related to "What's his worth in a trade to other teams." He HAS had a tough season, and it hasn't even been in the big leagues. And he's not THAT young. He might be a big side of a platoon, which knocks his value down, and he's probably not going to become a much better OFer, further knocking his value down. In any case, he's definately not part of "too expensive" when talking about getting back a catcher that you hope fills the position well for a number of years. Same for Meyer. I know many prospect fans don't want to hear it, but the luster is off Meyer, at least in terms of what he's "worth." At this point, he's just another struggling big arm, trying to find success at AAA (and not finding much of it, BTW) for more than a season. History of arm problems. Most teams have similar players. And most of those guys end up not becoming good big league players.

If two players with multiple years of AAA experience, neither of which are currently deemed good enough to be on the 2015 big league team, is too expensive, then it will not be possible to upgrade catcher through a trade. Teams are not going to improve the Twins out of a sense of charity. At this point, both Meyer and Arcia would be viewed as suspects more than prospects by everyone except us. And rightly so.

They also produce the packaging used for their dairy products. The packaging...for their dairy products...that'd be the cows, amiright?

peel? Peel an avocado? Son of a ...