USAFChief

Sometimes. On the other hand, sometimes trading what's working for what you hope might someday work is how teams sustain windows of sucking.

Just another reason why "don't sign big time free agents until you're already good" is folly. Sign em when you can. They might not be there later.

No, I don't think so. He was firm about his position on purpose.

I've said it multiple times, but when I watch Kepler I see Paul O'Neill. Which would be a pretty good thing, if true.

Well, they're prolly tofu dogs anyway, so who cares?

Not only can hitters sit on it, it ends up in the middle of the zone too often. Even if a hitter is sitting on a fastball, 98 on the low outside corner is tough to square up. Real tough.

That's probably from the famous SoCal smog.

Signing a starter for 4-6 years at 8 figures per year, and signing a reliever for 1-3 years, at 7 figures per year, are not apt comparisons. Complaining about large sums of wasted money, and complaining about not possibly wasting modest sums of money, are not apt comparisons. Even if every single FA signed fails, you have your entire minor league system to count on, putting you in the same position as if you hadn't signed a single one. All you've lost is money, and innings. Personally I don't give a rip if ownership makes a few million less. That ain't my goal, and I hope it's not theirs. The point was, indeed, finding bullpen solutions. Arguing that free agency isn't one route is not supported by any argument I've heard put forth here or elsewhere.

When you're dabbling in minor league free agency, of course it's a crapshoot. And even that is giving it too much credit, what you're really hoping for is to get lucky. That one of the three AAAA guys you sign has a lucky year. But to say you can't sign quality bullpen pieces isn't true. They exist, you just have to be willing to pay the cost. And BTW, injury is zero reason to not sign anybody, except in the case of someone with a chronic injury. All pitchers are injury risks, including the minor league FAs you're depending on.

So it's not free agency that doesn't work, it's cost? please elaborate.

"Free agency isn't the way to build it," yet three of the relievers you mention were added as free agents, including both the "terrific" Kintzler and the "pretty good" Breslow.

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would care if the MN Twins were to hand out, say, four FA contracts over the winter over $4M, and, say half of them didn't work out. How in any way would that be worse for anyone involved? if that's too much money, fold up the franchise. Or be prepared to watch 550 losses over six years.

There should be a new manager in the dugout tomorrow. There needs to be accountability at all levels. Sheer stupidity, and you could see it coming from a mile away.

OK, will do. Hadn't thought of that. Usually, I consider doing a welfare check on you after I read your game thread intro.

Well, the post I responded to used "RBI crowd," so... While we're on the subject, a walk may or may not lead to a run, too, but I don't see the OBP crowd saying walks are situational. Mauer's (former) on base percentage is cited as indisputable proof of his value. I also disagree that hitting a fly ball that results in a run is something a player has little control over.

And the anti-RBI crowd seems to think the object of the game is to avoid outs. That's not how they determine the winner at the end of the game.

Yup.

If RBI are extremely valuable, why would they be an extremely poor evaluation tool?

Fun with numbers.

I'll never understand how someone can watch baseball and then state "RBI are meaningless." Never.

Not to pick on you, but I've been reading some version of this post for several years now. "Now's not the time. Wait. The minor leaguers are coming. Don't trade. Don't sign bullpen help. Don't sign free agents. In two years, we'll be good, and THEN go get the guys needed to be good." I will give you credit for being the first person to mention trading Sano, though. Uff-da.

1. legit starter: better than what the Twins are running out at 4 and 5 right now. 2. I pay very little attention to Fangraphs, even less to their projections, and even less than that to WAR, so I don't care about any of that. The Twins are currently on pace for 90 wins. We're a quarter of the way through the season. That's reality, and with some help, I see no reason they can't come close to maintaining that pace.

Add one legit starter, 2 relievers from the minors, and suddenly this team looks a lot different to me. Nobody--NOBODY--has dominant pitching up and down the staff. And if you DO have it, it's fleeting. Look at the Mets from a couple years ago...everybody's darling, all that young pitching. They were going to dominate baseball for half a decade. You don't need 5 great starters to get to the postseason. And you shouldn't count on tomorrow being better than today, if you just wait.

None of this makes much sense to me. I don't understand how, on the one hand, we don't have a good enough minor league system for any other team to want any of it in trade, but if we just hold onto those minor leaguers, they'll magically turn into everything needed to win the WS. I don't understand what the previous regime has to do with what the current regime should do, nor do I believe the holes the team had "for the last decade" have anything to do with 2017. I don't understand arguing, on the one hand, that good players by themselves don't win ("Trout"), and then arguing, on the other hand, against providing them some help. I don't understand arguing that the Twins won't sign high dollar free agents, and also arguing against trades. That leaves only the minor leagues...and you've already said the minor league system doesn't have much talent. Somewhat off topic, but I also strongly disagree that it "takes all 25 guys on the roster to win in the playoffs." It takes all of the 25 man, and most all of the 40 man roster to get to the playoffs. Once you're there, it's about the top 15-18 players on your team. You said it yourself...you'd be fine with Berrios starting games 1, 4 and 7 in a series. You're only using 3 or 4 starters in the postseason, and only the top 3 or 4 relievers will be used in any significant way. Nobody is starting the utility IFer in the playoffs. You don't need, or use, a 25 man roster in the playoffs. The Twins minor league system has already provided them with the basics needed to win. If Sano, Buxton, Polanco, Berrios, Kepler, et al aren't good enough to contend in 2017, might as well trade them all off and start over. But they are good enough, so what's needed is to man up and go find the help they need, and start doing it now.

Fair points. I do, however, believe there is a deal out there that can help this team. Obviously they're not trading for a top line starter. Maybe take on money, find a situation where someone with talent needs a fresh start. And don't let trading away a prospect or two stand in the way. Fortune favors the bold.