Shane Wahl

Did I really not drunkenly post in this thread last night? How did I miss it? I cannot imagine why Twins fans would want to reload with players who aren't very good, especially those who have been bad for the Twins. Liriano, outside of 2006 and 2010 has been bad. Sorry. There is no other way around that. This team is useless if it shells out $6 million for Frankie and $3 million for Pavano instead of spending $9 million on a good pitcher. They could also take the view that Blackburn is sunk garbage cost that will be gone after 2013, so they could be willing to spend more. 2 of Marcum, Blanton, and Myers could be had for $15 million or so, and Myers and Marcum may only require one-year deals. It's as though people have forgotten the performances of Twins players in the past few years.

I know! Also, are people forgetting how bad he was when healthy last year? There is no "league average" ERA there and there sure as hell aren't going to be 200 innings!

I agree with Fanatic Jack, generally, here! The bizarre marginal roster decisions indicate total weirdness to me. Jeff Gray and now Tim Wood. Thielbar on the 40-man? Really? Anyway, I think Doumit, Burton, and Carroll are good enough additions to warrant some good respect for TR in his first year back. It is unfortunate that this manager chose to remove Carroll from SS, even though the numbers are on Carroll's side. If TR can just now focus on TWO FA additions (Marcum and somebody else), that would be more than good enough for me.

In general, the trend around here is cracking me up. Sign Liriano and re-sign Pavano. Also, bemoan the loss of Baker. It is as though people around here WANT to simply repeat 2012. Good god. And then there is the fun addition of Chone Rivas, I mean Chone Figgins to the discussion. You guys are supposedly only weeks away from your blueprints and this is what has become of that? I wish Gleeman were around to consider Baker, Pavano, Liriano, and Figgins. That would be hilarious.

How is this still a discussion? He is now TERRIBLE. Trust me, I loved the guy years ago, but once this type of player loses speed there is a disaster coming. Anyway, a .484 OPS in 2011 and a .533 OPS in 2012 should, you know, be pretty damn telling. Couple that lack of ANY offensive production with a sub-par-to poor defense and there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO WASTE TIME WITH THIS GUY. I am shocked there is any argument about this. Even Florimon and Dozier at their worst are not going to suck this bad. And there is potential that something happens with at least one of them. As in, they are on the incline and Figgins is obviously on the decline. I would rather have James Beresford start at second base RIGHT NOW than waste anything on Figgins.

I think what is going on is that there are teams willing to spend money now in order to get their organization in order and that there are going to be free agents signing for only marginal increases from last year's contracts. That said, throwing $16 million for two years of Marcum seems like an obvious good move and would seem to get him immediately . . . so I am not going to blame other teams for Twins' inaction here.

A rising tide lifts all boats. The Cubs aren't doing the Twins any favors, that's for sure. This is just false. First, the Cubs organization is very, very stupid. And they are my second favorite team, by far. They are just dumb. Anyway, how short memories are. Remember Mark Buehrle? He got a RIDICULOUS contract.early last offseason and the market subsequently fell for a bunch of pitchers. I am not sure how to respond to such immediate responses like this. Good grief. I think what you're saying was once true, but things are quickly changing just below the surface for the Cubs. They were very shrewd signing Maholm last year and flipping him for a top-10 pitching prospect from the Braves (Vizcaino) along with another good looking pitcher ( a scenario I begged the Twins to take by signing Maholm, Bedard and Jackson last spring). As a Cubs fan, you do realize that between FA, trades and waiver acquisitions (another area where Ryan has been lacking, especially in such an advantageous position), the Cubs have acquired 10 RHP since July 31, right?!? They offloaded some hefty salaries ( and they have 3 more PTBNL picks coming besides) and got another top-10 infielder (Christian Villenueva). They established the future direction of the team when they signed Starlin Castro and Jorge Soler (going to be a monster) to relatively inexpensive long-term deals. And they got Rob Deer in as a hitting coach. If things don't pan out in the first half of 2013, as is likely, they just flip these one-year contracts and unload more salaries for more prospects. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Watch out come 2014. If Terry Ryan could only have been just half as "stupid" as the Cubs have been over the last 7 months. Ok, that is a fair analysis. The Cubs are taking the view that they can spend money to trade for prospects as well (which the Twins foolishly didn't do in 2012. The Maholm trade was remarkable. Still though, that team makes Soriano kind of contracts and trades prospects for Matt Garza. They got rid of Matt Murton for no reason, and didn't bother with keeping Aramis for whatever dumb reason.

I agree completely. Especially given the drop in payroll going forward anyway. and the possibility of trading these players if need be for legit prospects (spending money on players does not mean that they cannot trade those players!).

Why on earth are the Twins interested?

I laugh at the idea that trading Span is some kind of necessity. For what? If this is about contending in 2013, I guarantee you that the Twins in 2013 are going to be better with Span than without him. If it is about 2014 and beyond, then I guarantee you that A: either there will be other trade options like Revere and Parmelee that make sense, or B: a deadline trade is going to be much more beneficial for Span. I will vomit if the opening day lineup is Revere-Carroll at the top.

Alternatives are still out there. I am not sure what the damn panic is AT ALL. I would definitely like the Twins to wait before making such a decision to bring back a washed-up headcase who has has been bad/injured for 4 out of 7 seasons in his career. Imagine the craziness in being concerned about that!!!

Exactly. The Twins could have signed Edwin Jackson late-ish last season after all. And they should have. Again, the Cubs are stupid.

A rising tide lifts all boats. The Cubs aren't doing the Twins any favors, that's for sure. This is just false. First, the Cubs organization is very, very stupid. And they are my second favorite team, by far. They are just dumb. Anyway, how short memories are. Remember Mark Buehrle? He got a RIDICULOUS contract.early last offseason and the market subsequently fell for a bunch of pitchers. I am not sure how to respond to such immediate responses like this. Good grief.

It would be a terrible decision to bring Liriano back, unless he was the third best pitcher signed by the Twins. That is not going to happen.

This is my view EXACTLY. I would love to see that. He would pull more homers and hit 50 doubles by going the other way. It is VERY smart for the Red Sox to try that.

Leaves room for Marcum and others. So it isn't bad at all. Baker doesn't deserve that salary as a base and the Twins would have been foolish to offer it. What if Baker is injured again in ST and the Twins have sunk 11 million bucks between Baker and Blackburn????

DC used to have a Thome shirt that read "600 Naturally". We should do a Butera one that reads ".500(OPS) Naturally". Nice. I will probably order that Game Six shirt pretty soon. Wow.

Imagine Drew Butera with bad defense and who plays in the infield. That's Chone Figgins now.

He can no longer hit, his BB/K rate is going in the wrong direction dramatically, he no longer really steal bases, his defense is now below average, he has been below replacement level for 2 seasons, is a bit of a problem in the clubhouse, and would take valuable playing time away from players the Twins need to develop in order to figure out the future of this godforsaken infield. WHAT MORE NEEDS TO BE SAID?

He has been TERRIBLE​ for three years.

I don't like the overall plan here, but I love the ballsy Youkilis move. He is one of my favorite players and I love the OBP potential there if he has a bounce-back season. Add in Ichiro and the Twins would have my heart. Anyway, I would have liked, if adding Youkilis, to trade Morneau or Parmelee. And actually, the addition of a RH bat like that makes me more open to trading Willingham. I have big doubts about moving Plouffe anywhere else.

Precisely. Though I didn't listen to myself and still drafted him in my fantasy league not once, but TWICE after the decline.

Some things seem clear about last season: Even though I am very much over Alexi Casilla, he should have played SS. After Brian Dozier started to play bad defense, he should have moved to 2B and Jamey Carroll should have gone back to SS where he was above average anyway.

If only Max Kepler were a shortstop. Actually, the big hope down the line that far has got to be Niko Goodrum. In the immediate future, filling in the rest of the lineup with productive hitters is going to be needed. I would not have thought that James Beresford would be the starting shortstop for the Twins, even though I always liked him. But I would not be surprised if it happened in 2014.

Like the pretenders and imitators of the real Slim Shady, the Twins appear to have a preposterous situation at the SS position throughout the organization. Here, I discuss the 15 top shortstops in the organization with regard to their current output and future potential. Initially, the term "shortstop" will designate those players in the organization with significant playing time at the position in 2012 (Eduardo Escobar's 10 games at the position is the low point in terms of playing time at SS). The "big" 15 are: Jamey Carroll, Brian Dozier, Pedro Florimon, Eduardo Escobar, James Beresford, Estarlin De Los Santos, Daniel Santana, Levi Michael, Tyler Grimes, Stephen Wickens, Adam Bryant, Adam Pettersen, Niko Goodrum, Jorge Polanco, Aderlin Mejia. These players have accumulated 650 games played at SS this season and 559 games at other positions (predominantly 2B, then 3B). So the "shortstops" here have actually played the position for 53.8% of the games. Included in this are the games played by De Los Santos (55) and Bryant (20), but those two players cannot be a part of the future for the Twins with Bryant's .580 OPS as a 23-year-old at Beloit, and De Los Santos' .552 OPS as a 25-year-old. Removing those games makes it about 50/50 in terms of shortstop playing time vs. playing time at other positions. But this ratio could be offset by true shortstops coupled with true second basemen, etc., right? Not really, as Brian Dozier's 83 games and Tyler Grimes' 77 games are second and third respectively in games played at shortstop behind Danny Santana. But Santana isn't even a good fit at SS, but is much better at 2B. In all three cases, it would appear that the better fit is 2B instead of SS. What on earth is going to happen at shortstop outside of adding free agents? The best cases may be Florimon and Beresford, but I have no high hopes for the offensive production in the future for those two players. Maybe that will not matter, as the Twins offense outside of SS may improve dramatically. Otherwise, it would appear that the Twins are going to be hoping for Niko Goodrum to stay at short and develop offensively. There is a major failure by this organization at securing this position. They had a chance with the FA J.J. Hardy, but they sought help elsewhere (nowhere). I am comfortable with Florimon backed by Carroll for 2013, but the outlook is fairly bleak beyond this season. The hope (for the future) for 2013 is going to lie in James Beresford's offensive production, Danny Santana's ability to field the postion, and Niko Goodrum's progress at the position across the board.