tobi0040

I think the Twins had a couple of moving pieces here and I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison. Bauer was a top 10 prospect. At 21 he already had 150 IP at AA and AAA, as well as 16 IP at the major league level. He had this time under his belt with another organization prior to coming to the Indians. Last May, Meyer had exactly 70 innings under his belt at AA, in which he was shut down with a shoulder injury and 4-6 starts under his belt, or about 25 innings at AAA. So when you compare the two, they had vastly different experiences. In addition, Meyer was on a pitch count. The other factor is service time. I personally believe the Twins know they will only have Meyer for five or six years and they hope that they get that time with a good pitcher, preferrably on a team that is trending up. It looks like he is arb-eligible as early as next season and he has an ERA plus of 87. Had the Twins brought up Meyer last May, they would have wasted a year of service time on a pitcher who can only throw 80 pitches a game and is struggling through control. In addition, they would have been wasting that control on a 90 loss team. This year would be his second year of control and he clearly has not worked through the issues. I have wanted the guy as bad as the next guy, but right now he can't hit the broad side of a barn, so I would rather that happen in AAA with his clock at zero. If he provides any control whatsoever, bring him up. I was very disgruntled last year about Meyer, but I am coming around that maybe it wasn't the right time. I know that this is a very unpopular viewpoint, but I would guess that the 2019 or 2020 versions of yourself may appreciate the decision and disagree with the 2015 versions.

He came to the Indians as a top 10 prospect at 21 who had already pitched in the big leagues. He started in aaa, had a bb rate in the mid 5's. Was promoted. Was really bad. Then demoted to aaa. He had a bb rate under 3 and was then put back on the Indians. If Meyer had a bb rate in the 4 or 5 range this year he pitches for the twins.

Bauer went 6 scoreless. Gives up no hits and 5 bb. 11 k to a major league team Meyer went 5. 3 er. 6 bb. 3 k to minor league players. The only one I have heard of was colabello.

I agree guys go in and out of grooves. I just think he needs to get in one before he sniffs the big leagues. I think the odds are greater that he struggles up here an has a greater chance of hurting his confidence than he does of turning a switch on. I also think that his best weapon in his slider. Comes in low 90's and the bottom drops out. But if his fastball is not a threat nobody will offer at the slider. So fixing the fastball makes him better by two pitches.

No disagreement here. If he is in the mid 4's or even 5. Bring him up. But at this point it would seem like a terrible idea for his confidence and frankly, mean.

From what I understand, his mechanics are all over the place. The flip side is, if a guy is walking more than a guy an inning in AAA, what do you expect to happen by promoting him? He is suddenly going to gain some control against better hitters?

Yeah. If the guy has 5 BB's every 9 or so. This year, on this team? Sure. Why not. But he has 11 walks in his last 10 innings. It is hard for me to fault the Twins for not bringing him up. Let the guy at least figure out which direction the ball is going before making his MLB debut.

Okay. So on the moving too quick side it is the players fault. But on the other side, which you have not named a single player, it is the teams fault? Meyer is the guy most brought up. He showed up in spring training and walked 5 guys in 5 innings, literally no control at all on his fastball. None. In his start today at AAA, he goes 5 innings and walks 6 batters. At some point the player here, not the Twins need to own his lack of promotion.

I think the culprits are drafting, targeting high school players, and having picks routinely in the 20-30 range. For instance, Buxton, Sano, and Berrios will all be up at or before age 22. Rosario 23 or so. Vargas was up at 23. Arcia at 22. Now we have prospects AND places for them.

Who should have been brought up sooner? It has to be more than one, as Hicks was clearly brought up too early.

Who should have debuted earlier is the question? This has been discussed on several threads. From 2002 to 2010 or so the Twins primarily drafted high school position players AND had a fairly decent rotation. The picks we hit on, Garza and Gibson primarily were up relatively as quick as they could have been. The two other coup's from rule 5 and trades were up very young as well (Santana and Liriano). The list of pitchers we drafted that busted didn't reach the majors because they were terrible. May and Meyer often get cited, but the fact is neither was with our organization until they were 22. One came off a year at AA in which his ERA was near 5.00 (May) and the other just finished a year in low A. May was up here within a year and a half and Meyer was on a pitch count all last year and did have some control issues that he still has displayed up to this point. Until somebody can articulate exactly which players were not brought up fast enough and can display a list that is at least as long as the players that were brought up too early this argument is getting a little old for me. The issue isn't the Twins being too slow to promote guys, but rather not having players good enough to bring up.

Gibson was on the verge at 22 before TJ.

Just guessing here....He was a free agent and LA had no interest in signing him then. Something tells me they probably don't have room for him now.

That little voice said Pefrey a week ago. I wanted to strangle that little voice. Thank you for planting the Stauffer seed. 60% of our rotation, a few days into the season, Milone, Pelfrey, and Stauffer. Awesome.

I bet May does not make his scheduled AAA start. Probably has one bullpen sessions and makes Nolasco's next start.

SD, it appears from your profile pic that you pulled a Benjamin Button.

This makes total sense. He just has not been the guy he was prior to last year. I wish he would have been open about it initially and he would already be throwing in rehab. On second thought, the Twins prefer the wait a year approach that has never worked.

(chanting) Let's go Wild!

Right, but only two starters were signed this FA season at a higher clip. Max and Lester. Not enough over four years to bridge the gap between 35 and 10.

Well that took all of 16 innings.

Yeah. But 30 pitchers have to get paid more than $22M a year in order for this to be in balance. I don't see that over the next four years, especially with all the team friendly deals out there.

I think we were talking about two different things. What would a guy get on the open market and is he worth it are two very different things. i think the fangraphs article is really saying why he will get paid. Not neccesarily that he is worth it or will pitch to that kind of deal.

The fangraphs stat of number of innings pitched by a pitcher before 25 number is not exactly eye opening. He was below average for 3-4 years. If anything it means he may not age as well as others and therefore negate a bit of how young he is. Last year was really a career year for him or close to it. His WAR was 2.7. The 30th best pitcher in MLB was Mark Buerhle at 3.1. So according to fangraphs he was about 35th or so in WAR in his best season, yet he is now going to be paid as a top 10 pitcher in baseball on an annual basis. So he is young and might get better, but he has a very long way to go in order to simply move into the range they are now locked into paying him. If he was a free agent, which he is not, I would not be shocked if someone gave him that deal. But it doesn't mean it is a good calculated bet. I don't get it.

And equally important. Is your current team one good pitcher away from contention? If not, you don't want to give up with two assets you have (cap room and prospects) in order to be a little better but still 3rd or 4th in the division. The premature 1.5 games in answer is no. We have been outscored 11-0 and given up 4 more runs than we have hits.

I will add "No way the Phillies have any interest in taking back either of those guys in a deal for Cole Hamels" Frankly, both Nolasco and Ervin are probably immovable right now unless we are taking back someone equally immovable.