DocBauer

Interesting breakdown! Just curious, but does the catcher give a thumbs up sign to indicate the pitch should be belt high or above? Or is that simply a given for Pelfrey? And exactly what and how many fingers are flashed by the catcher to indicate that the ball should be thrown straight?

Absolutely true. And I didn't mean to intimate that careers were suddenly over. I just find it frustrating that Oliveros wasn't 100%, and that some of the other kids could be inconsistent, but not necessarily bad, and a veteran would seem to have a job locked up while pitching just aweful...to this point. I guess this eternal optomist is just frustrated. But I've said for some time now that the pitching staff, starters and relievers alike, that starts the season is not necessarily the staff that ends the season. Or even is the staff in the second half of the season.

And right now, Boyer interests me more than Stauffer who has exactly ONE solid appearance. I hope the Stauffer signing pays off. And if it does I'll root like crazy for him. But I have to say I'm disappointed that the younger prospects have fallen by the wayside, even though they mostly outperformed him to this point.

A battle is exactly what we want and need isn't it? Like last season, when just about everyone figured Gibson would begin the season in Rochester, there was a battle and the right guy, the young guy, made the club. No offense to Milone or Pelfrey, but they are not a part of the future of the club. May is.

PS...I can understand the sentiment to move Santana back to CF. And I still believe he may see some time out there. But I have a really hard time taking a really talented SS, putting him back in to CF again, for what will still be a temporary move, and then...then do what with him a year for now? NOW try to make him your full time SS? Now put him in LF or RF where Arcia will be and probably Rosario?

The problem is not Escobar. The problem, and it's a good one, is Santana. I like Escobar a lot. I was part of the "Free Escobar" campaign. I still like him a lot. And if this was just about any time in the last 10 years, the Twins would...and us...would be ever so grateful for him and he'd be written in ink, carved in stone for the starting SS spot. But it's not the past, it's now. Santana has as much pop if not more. Santana has more range, a stronger arm (so it seems), and more overall athleticism. Santana has more speed. Santana appears to have as good or better bat and as good or better discipline. So, no offense to Escobar, but he should start at SS over Santana why? Again, not a knock on Escobar, just a reality on Santana.

Yes, I see your point. But I think, generally, on a baseball roster, isn't that last guy often a "utility" type? It's not like football, for instance, where the roster is large enough for a 2 deep. Herrmann would be a utility type, just different than Nunez. If we kept Robinson he'd be a utility OF, yes? My point is simply that Nunez, if he's the guy, has the ability to do a few things.

Hey gang...some thoughts running through my head lead me to a little bit of player research and what I thought to be some interesting statistical analysis. The following 5 player CAREER MLB statistical comparisons are all Twins players, not random MLers, and as stated, they are career numbers, not a pick and choose good or bad year scenarios to skew anything. Bear with me, there is a point that I find interesting, and I believe most of you will as well. The following 5 players are listed by career OPS, lowest to highest, as I had to pick some order of reference, and chose this route. I also tossed in SB numbers to show additional, potential, effectiveness as to offensive production. Player AVG OB% SLG% OPS SB's CS SB% A: .226 .304 .266 .570 91 55 62% B: .245 .323 .323 .646 104 36 74% C: .240 .332 .318 .649 22 15 59% D: .251 .310 .344 .654 36 27 57% E: .264 .305 .380 .684 57 14 80% OK, so career numbers for these Twins...or former Twins...current or former ML ballplayers and Twins. Exact power numbers and R's or RBI aren't really necessary, though they could potentially provide their own interesting information, because each of these 5 ballplayers is a "utility" player. Therefore, I concentrated on base numbers, where things such as SLG or OPS would seem to be more indicitive of production than pure numbers. While none of the 5 is a supreme hitter or OB% machine or big time power threat, there are certainly differences between them all. Clearly some hit better than others, provide more contact, provide more pop, and have more speed and better overall ability to steal a base successfully. Any guesses? Here is your key: A: Al Newman B: Nick Punto C: Jeff Reboulet D: Denny Hocking E: Eduardo Nunez The point? In the past 25 plus years, Newman, Reboulet, Hocking and Punto would configure the primary 4 "utility" infielders that the Twins have employed on their roster. Al Newman, a fan favorite, a bit of a catalyst when acquired for the memorable 1987 season, and a future milb coach for the Twins, won 2 World Series with our beloved Twins as the primary utility infielder, despite actually showing on here that he was actually the poorest offensive contributor of the bunch. Reboulet and Hocking certainly saw a mixed bag of ups and downs with the Twins during their careers, and Punto saw success as a player, individually to be sure, but especially as a teammate on some very nice Twins teams. Yet Punto, who played on mostly winning teams, and who I always liked and appreciated, ranks below Reboulet and Hocking both in overall OPS, despite clearly winning the speed/SB argument. And to be fair, there are a few different ways you could argue the relative value of these players offensively, as well as overall. But what I'm not sure can be argued so easily is the fact that all 4 of these players were relevant, very relevant, to the Twins as a whole when they played. They each spent several years as THE primarily utility guy. Not THE GUY to lead a team, but the guy who could come off the bench to give a break, or fill in, etc, and do the best they could to help the team out in the long haul of a season. So this brings us to Nunez. As I stated elsewhere earlier..yesterday...I'm tired of trying to defend Nunez who I think is an OK ballplayer, especially when he's the last guy on the bench! But when curiosity got the better of me, and I looked this information up, I took one more charge! Look, I'd probably rank the other 4 guys ahead of Nunez when it comes to overall glove work. Do I know this? Can I prove it? No, I really can't. Because unfortunately, Nunez not only has less time with the Twins thus far, but I've probably watched him, with my own eyes, less than the other guys from Newman on down. Reputation printed on the internet tells me he's anywhere from OK to the most god-awful player to ever wear a glove and take to a baseball field. From what I HAVE seen, he's clearly not that bad. But here's the kicker. Not only does he appear to be a far better overall hitter and offensive contributor than any of the other long tenured Twins utility infielders of the past, but he's also NOT the Twins primary utility infielder like the other 4 players were. He's a SECOND utility player, the 25th man on the roster...potentially. He's a guy who is solid to OK to THUD defensively at multiple positions. I go with the middle ground. Personally, I'd work his butt off daily in the OF and even at 1B just to make certain I had the most versatile player, 25th man on the roster I could find. Offensively, I'm not sure many teams could touch his overall production with THEIR 25th man. And haven't we been talking and debating for a good year now about the importance of the whole roster, including the last man on the bench? Now, you don't have to be a Nunez supporter. But before we resort to bashing him again, you might just consider what he can do, and what he can bring to the team, vs. not being a gold glove primary utility man.

No to moving Sano off 3rd. He has the ability. He looks pretty good. He's still learning, isn't polished yet, and he WILL make some mistakes. Deal with it. Absolutely no reason to deal Plouffe now, and probably not any time this season. Maybe next off season. As to the original topic...as stated elsewhere, it really can depend on an attempt to acquire a prospect or someone ready (or almost ready) to help now. I have a lot of love for Garver and Turner, but another catcher would be smart. A hard tossing leftie to place in the pen would also be smart. And while I am not a Nunez or Herrmann hater, you go out and acquire a 25th man with positional flexibility and offensive talent who could at least be a fill in starting player, and you just made a smart move.

No energy to continue fighting for Nunez as an ok player for the end of the bench. So while Polanco will probably make him obsolete by next season, for now, if my choice is throw Nunez to the wolves, or embrace him as a solid/decent 25th man option..."Yaa Nunez!"

NEVER thought Rosario was in the mix for a day one spot. And yet...I'm starting to believe he has a shot. THAT would be a huge surprise. And not an unpleasant one. Pinto is almost assuredly the backup at catcher barring just bad play, IMO. I like Herrmann, always have. Always felt there was potential there as a solid bad and OK versatile position player. It's between he and Nunez for the final spot. Nothing against Milone, but I want May or Meyer and the other to come up when Nolasco proves himself and gets traded. Right now, I think Milone is the man. I don't think Stauffer is a given at all at this point. But Graham might be. So might be Pelfrey. That could leave Tonkin or someone taking Stauffer's spot. Kind of strange to feel the roster is almost set already. Is that good or bad?

Back to Nunez, he and Herrmann are clearly fighting for the 25th spot on the roster. And honestly, they each potentially bring something useful to the club, and I wish there was room for both. I don't understand all the vitriol about Nunez, never haven never will, and we will just agree to disagree. Personally, if you're asking me what I want for the last player on my bench; a hot glove who can't hit a lick and has no power..OR..a so-so to OK glove at multiple positions who can hit and run some with a bit of pop, I guarantee you Im taking the flexible guy who can hit a little and help out here and there. He's not a starter. He's not even the top utility guy. He's a fill-in role player.

Back on original topic, I understand regression and there are various reasons to doubt Santana both offensively and defensively. Two things though: 1) Every single thing he did last year he was not supposed to do. And yet...he kept doing them. Then he gets hurt a little, comes back, and just about all of us, including me, figures the mojo dream is gone now, and Cinderfella will leave his cleat at the ball park and the Cadillac will turn back in to an old fungo ball. Instead, he just keeps keeping on. 2) Never forget the guy didn't walk in off the street. He's a very talented athlete whom a lot of people said very good things about in the past. And thus far, still early, he's done nothin ing in ST but hit and play good to great defense. The "I just knew it was too good to be true" part of me remains wary. But honestly, I no longer bet against this guy.

It's early, but....... Graham has looked good. Better than I had expected. I expected velocity but control issues. Again, it's early, but he looks like more than a stash. I'd still rather go young, but Pelfrey has actually looked good as well. As has been speculated on TD at various times, could he re-invent himself as a quality reliever? It might just happen. Stauffer....I understand the whole arguement of working on things, finding a feel, building arm strength, etc. but he has just been lit up! Nobody wants to admit a mistake, but at this point, and this day and age, his contract really isn't that much crow to eat.

Neat story. Sometimes you almost forget there are real lives behind the names in the boxscores. Thanks Seth!

In other words...offer me very substantial or bugger off.

Perspective and opinion. Despite several years of average to downright poor/disappointing seasons defensively and offensively, the Twins had a primary starting SS in 2014 who is no GG, but played solid everyday SS defensively and hit a quad slash of .275/.315/.406/.721 and ranked amongst league leaders with 35 doubles and 6 homers. Folks, in the past 30 year history of the Twins, this is Smalley and Guzman territory, with all deference to the immense contributions of Gagne. And as impressive as that is, this player, and his production, may be replaced by an even more athletic and dynamic player, both offensively and defensively, in Santana. It's not an insult to the productive and talented Escobar. It's just a reality to a certain talent level. If you produce to your very best, and it's bested, it doesn't mean you suck. It just means you do the best you can when in there. Look at all of Escobar's numbers, and age, again, and tell me someone will give the Twins top value for him. A young SS who is NOT proven elite, but who can PLAY and hit, and hit with authority, and tell me what he's worth.

Replying to my own thread but can't help it. 70's in Nebraska and the Twins in spring training playing and actually showing early life. I hate to say it....because I'm not sure I should have to...but....come on people. This is spring and spring training. Forget the calendar. We have our own. Time to celebrate a new baseball new year and hoist a brew and dog. What are your thoughts? Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring.

I bow and thank you sincerely with a tip of my cap curt. Always 100% from my head and heart.

A really great article Thry. And I can't really put finger to keyboard here and disagree with you. And yet...we have disagreed a bit on this topic over the last couple of years. I absolutely agree that THIS is the year where the bullpen gets a revamp. It's time. And I'm not so sure that the bullpen that begins the season is the bullpen that ends it. I think Burdi, amongst a couple others, could make things really interesting. But I think where we disagree is that the bullpen wasn't always as bad as advertised the past couple of seasons. Were I not too busy, tired and lazy, LOL, I would bet real money I could prove the Twins pen the past few seasons was much better May thru July/August than the final numbers suggest. A worn out bullpen will begin to shatter at some point. I agree the bullpen needs to be addressed. I think we have a lot of really talented arms that need, and are worthy, of opportunity. I also think by mid season there will be another 1-3+ bullpen arms ready to audition. The question is, will Molitor and Ryan and staff make room? Even before that, will they make room for the guys they already have on roster? Because while I feel the entire Twins organization wants to move forward, Im still worried they might stick with veteran/contract pitchers for the reason of.........? Go ahead and give Graham a shot if you think he's for real. Give Stauffer his $2M shot. But to me, don't you dare ignore Tonkin, Oliveros and others just because.

Soooo much speculation recently about the Twins infield. Some admittedly started by myself with reference to the buy/sell article on Mauer. For the record, I'm a buyer. If he was stock, I'd put a boat load down. But we talk about Plouffe. Do we trade him or move him around somewhere on the diamond? Santana or Escobar at SS or CF. An extension for Dozier? Nunez is a waste for the final roster spot? Can we backtrack for a moment? I know we've had a few lousy seasons lately. I know a magic 8 ball is probably only second to a fully functional Ouija board in trying to predict this next season. BUT...and it's a BIG BUT...just look at the capitalization for goodness sake...can we backtrack and reflect for a moment? Ever since Koskie was a stud at 3B we've had who at 3B???? The fact that you have a hard time remembering only proves the point. (kudos to you if you remember Pinto's one really solid season there) SS has been a forgettable who's who that only their mothers remember except for one OK, mostly forgettable season from Hardy. I swear 2B has been an even deeper black hole than SS since Knoblauch played there. At least SS had Guzman and a young Bartlett for a couple years. 2B had....Rivas? Shudder. Honestly, in the last 10-20 years, not to be mean, but he might have been one of the biggest "teases" the Twins have had. So here we are now. We have a 2B ranked amongst the best in all of baseball by just about every scout and publication, who probably still hasn't hit his ceiling yet, and a 3B who is a former 1st round pick SS who took some time, but has converted to 3B very nicely defensively. He's even produced enough offense to be amongst the top third in all of the ML. And we have a SS who played "mostly" CF last season,defied all odds and expectations, and pretty much kicked butt. The problem is that one of the top prospcts in all of baseball is looking to take over 3B sooner than later. And while it's early in ST, and he has a ways to go, he's actually looked solid in the field despite an error, has made a couple nice pickups, has shown his re-built arm is just fine, and just powered the first HR of the spring against the wind even. Escobar, the starter at SS most of last season...a season most of us would have hoped and prayed for the past several seasons...is in a battle for the athletic and surprising Santana. And while Santana would seem to offer the best/greatest long term value, the truth is Escobar had a great '14 and is off to a great '15. How do you sort this out properly? And what about the great potential of Polanco? Truth is, other than 1B, where the top potential prospects are in rookie and A ball....no offense to Vargas who projects at DH and backup 1B...Kepler figures as the best 1B prospect. And that's OK. If you have Buxton, Arcia and Rosario in the OF, possibly Walker, it's more than OK if Kepler plays 1B and backs up the OF. I'm not saying we are where we need to be, where we want to be, and where we will be. That might take some or all of 2015.But just a couple of years ago, we were downright desperate for talent to assemble and build an acceptable ML caliber inf. And now, very soon, we may be in a position where we almost have too much talent. Nunez has been much debated. He has his supporters and detractors. For his ML career he has a quad slash of .264/.305/.380/.684. Actually, even with OK defense, his numbers are pretty solid for a utility player. A couple of years ago, we might have actually been excited about his potential at a position. Again, there's nothing great here. But if your arguement/concern is over the last man on the roster, and it's Nunez, then how far, and how fast, has the Twins infield come? You have GOT to feel good about the potential this season, and the next few, of this infield, yes? Where do you see it? How does it shape up?

Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring... The memory still remains wonderfully vivid...but time has dulled calendar, and I forget if it was '82 or '83, my junior or senior year of high school, but like a splendid, framed lithograph on my wall, I still see, smell and feel in great detail, because....because...because I told and promised myself to NEVER forget. School was out, (tip of the cap to Kearney Senior High and the Bearcats), I raided and ransacked my locker, tossing anything and everything not of value to me, (which wasn't much I confess). I stepped outside in to the late May afternoon, filled with blue and sunshine and only a few delicate whisps of white clouds high overhead. The grass was green and long on the couple acres of sloping hilltop that was splayed out before the tan-bricked school, and almost ready for an early mowing. The trees that dotted the landscape were fully clothed in early season fashion, and here and there a few groupings of weed, thistle and wild flower offered multi-color accent. The temperature was in the low 70's, no jacket required, and the sun felt like liquid warmth on face and exposed skin. I had to squint as I walked in to the gold, and I didn't mind or care in the least. There was the smell of fresh and new in the air. The smell of spring. And inside of me, I must confess, was the rush of dreams and hormones! What young man couldn't walk outside on a day like this was and not feel titillated with the possibilities of perpetual youth and perpetual possibility? The cold white and gray of winter was gone. Spring was in full swing, as were flights of fantasy. There were days and nights to kill, miles to drive, friends to do things with, late nights and sleep in mornings, days at the park or the beach, and, of course, the ever pursuit of the opposite sex. This was the newness, the rebirth, that was spring. Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring... But before that day, starting every late February, before the thaw and that special day I would commit to forever memory, there were young grown men..(some of them kids to me now)...driving and flying to Florida to prepare themselves for the upcoming season of Twins baseball. I might have walked out in to, and forever painted explicit and perfect memory of what spring was...but those men were the ones that signaled its beginning, calendar be damned! I knew when spring started...and it was when pitchers and catchers report. Beyond a few classic phrases such as "I do", "I love you", your baby's first birth cry, or "you just won the Publisher's Clearinghouse", there are probably not any more beautiful words in the world than those four: "Pitchers and catchers report!" New Year's might mark the official beginning of the year, but the beginning of baseball birthed the "newness" of the year. Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring... I know baseball is a passion that means the world to all of us here at Twins Daily. If it didn't, or doesn't, then why in hell are you here in the first place? LOL And while I think it means a lot of the same things to each of us, there are also as many thoughts, memories, experiences and meanings as there are readers and contributors here To me.... It's 5 years old watching my father co-coach a little league team named the Tigers in Brookings SD and then accompanying him, the head coach and the team to the Twin Cities for my very first Twins game at the old Met. If memory serves, it may have been the Tigers played that day. But other than the names Carew and Kilbrew, I remember little except enjoying being there with my dad and the team. I also remember my father working around the house, me still that same 5 year old, and through the years older, and Twins games broadcasting from an old black transistor radio, splattered with various colors of paint, seemingly permanentely tuned to WNAX 57.0 out of Yankton SD. There were trips in the car throughout my youth listening to whatever station we could get to come in, Smalley or Wynegar at the plate, Koosman or Goltz starting, Marshall coming in to close out the game before anyone knew what a "closer" was. All the while, my father educating me on the concepts and subtleties of the game, as well as his knowledge and experiences before my time. There were visits to my grandparent's farm in north central SD, a game on the way hopefully, and me helping out with the feeding of calves in the early evenings, filling troughs of grain for the milk cows, opening and closing gates for the same, and the radio hung on a hook in the white-walled tank room calling out balls and strikes and scores to my father, grandfather and family members in the milking pit doing their jobs. Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring... As I matured...sort of...in central Nebraska I strained to listen to my beloved Twins on the same old radio station. Clock radios, transistors, home stereos and car radios were all great until the sun went down. And then it was listening through the static, grasping for 3 out of every 4 or 5 words at times, spoken by Herb to follow along. West coast swings were the worst! But when it was a big series, or a rookie pitcher, or a top prospect up for the first time, you HAD to listen! (I still recall listening to Puckett's first ever game in the front seat of my parked car) Spring is a winter of paper, of any sort, and sketched out possible rosters and lineups and numbers shared with my father. And family just walking out of the room to give us an hour or so to talk amongst ourselves about what we hope for and expect. Projection and speculation can be a bitch. But also a great joy! It's about years of lean that could make a fortune if it were a diet, only to be rewarded with a worst to first team in '87. Watching the Twins out-do the formidable Tigers with the man who taught you the game. Then shedding real tears when you saw the final out of the championship winning moment. And the only thing you could do was pick up the phone to call that same man. Ditto years later. It's all of these things and more. It's pouring over The Sporting News, Baseball Digest, Baseball America, The Star Tribune (when you could grab a copy), all those years with good and crappy radio signals. But amidst all the winning and losing, all the years, all the players and prospects, it was the possibilities that really stand out. The possibilities brought about by a new spring. Like that young man-boy walking out in to the spring sunshine, filled with hormones, dreams and possibilities, that is baseball. Who's healthy? Who's ready? Who's coming up? What do you think the team will do THIS year?What if...? If only.... Sometimes it's next year...(sorry Cubs fans)...sometimes it tomorrow when your 90 loss team has a rookie pitcher who throws like an all star in a win. Sometimes it's your 90 loss team that seems to be on the precipice of something more, something better, and your father/son speculate along with a community of friends you share with. Sometimes....it's just day to day...year to year...much like our own lives reflected. Sometimes it's baseball. Sometimes it's life. Sometimes it's actually both. Sometimes I go on too long. But...sometimes the baseball season gets long as well. And then...then...all we can do is wait for spring training to begin. Let it spring...let it spring...let it spring.

I am on board with this. But I'm also high on Turner as well. It's hard enough to acurately predict just how good a top pick will be in the majors...if he makes it at all...much less try to decide right now how good Garver and Turner will be as ML'ers after a full season of A ball. But I think there's something here. Turner won the Johnny Bench award for the top college defensive catcher. I believe Garver finished second. We've heard raves about Turner behind the plate, but I've also heard nothing but positives about Garver defensively. I was surprised Garver was selected as late as he was considering his second place finish and big college bat at a premium position, despite worries his league inflated his numbers. Thus far, it doesn't appear his production had too much helium. Turner, meanwhile, still has potential offensively, and hit what, .280+?, after a rough first month or so? Catcher is a pretty unique position. It's hard to find a really good all-around one. Right now, the Twins seem to have a couple pretty good ones to watch. (And potentially another 1 or 2 younger and lower in the system) I don't get too wrapped up in the ages of catchers. There is a difference, to me, of a 24-25 yo OF putting up quality numbers in A ball vs a similar age catcher. (I believe this may still apply to Pinto as well)

Really wish we could go back to a 6 man bullpen and keep the extra bench player.

I've also been a long supporter of Hermann. And I've also long stated he should be playing some 3B, something he did in both high school and early in college, I believe. His days of playing any kind of CF are probably gone, but I always thought he was a great candidate for a 5 position corner/catcher bench player with a solid bat with gapper and occassional power. The bat still hasn't come around like I hoped. I don't know if that's related to never getting a single full year at AAA or not, but I've always wondered. Personally, I king of like Nunez, even though I believe he's squeezed out in 2016. You could do a lot worse than an OK defensive player at different positions with some speed, some pop, and the ability to hit a little. Isn't that you hope for in your 25th man?