DocBauer

Love this post! Am I a bit disappointed in some moves the FO didn't make before the season began? Absolutely! Did I think the Twins were really as bad as 103 losses last season? No. Did I predict a legitimate shot at .500 before the season began? Absolutely. But for a second, put yourself in the shoes of Falvey and Levine. You are put in charge of a team that DID lose 103 games the previous season, wasn't expected to contend in 2017, and you have to begin evaluations of EVERYONE and EVERYTHING on the scene and behind the scenes. And you have about 3 months to begin this process before ST begins. So 2017 looks like a real surprise! But you are STILL in this evaluation from the top down. You kick a few guys to the curb, you promote a few guys and play with the roster here and there. But do you really want to trade prospects you aren't totally familiar with to augment this team when you are still beginning your top down process? But you try a few things. The end of July comes, and while you have a fun and competitive team, there just isn't enough there to make a run. And you don't want to sell of potential assets that you are just getting to really know. So what do you do? You make moves to deepen your system and your options going forward. You have time and money to make moves in the off season, FA or trade, and have collected more milb talent for trades, or to offset prospects you include in trades. I want the Twins to win and build this organization to maintain winning in the worst way. But i just cant dislike flipping FA for some solid prospects that seem to be on the rise. And for me, whats really important, is we kept Santana to fill a SP slot for 2018. One big move, Berrios, Santana and Mejia is a solid start. Now I get the next 2 months to continue various auditions in the rotation and pen while looking at 2018. Am I 100% sold on everything done and not done since this new tandem took over? No. Am I disappointed the team has begun to fade somewhat and simply looks like it couldn't maintain contention status to some degree? Absolutely. But I see something building here. I see a method to the madness here. I can absolutely see promotions/auditions, a couple smart FA signings and/or trades making this team a contender for 2018.

At this point, I believe you will see a lot of roster shuffling and open auditions over August and September. And not just the obvious names like Garver, Granitem Hildenberger and Busentiz sticking around. You coukd see Vielma, Reed, Curtiss and others. Might even see some of the AA staff get some innings in. Turley in a RP role wouldn't shock me. Pressly in Kintzler's role, if traded, would give me palpitations but not an aneurysm. (As bad as his season has been why not use him the same way in the 9th for a game or two to see how he responds)? The whole point is, the season long trial and error and evaluation period kicks up a notch to gain ML experience, challenge and evaluate a few guys for next season 40 man spots, and so the FO can have a more perspective for off season moves.

My opinion only, I'm guessing Santana is still a Twin come next season. Despite being inconsistent since his bug start to the season, he's still been productive and has pitched some of his best games of Kate with zero support. He provides a solid, experienced arm and leadership for this team/staff as well. I firmly believe this FO to make an addition of a quality veteran starter in the off season. Will that be via FA or trade I just don't know. But if it's by trade, acquiring additional talent like these recent moves makes it more palatable to lose quality prospects as you haven't necessarily depleted your milb system. 2018 Rotation: New Guy Berrios Santana Mejia 1 of potentially, Slegers, Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Enns and possibly May.

Of course, I know nothing about either of these guys or their potential/ceilings or potential timetable. But in paper it seems like we just did a flip and an upgrade in a week's time. Yes? No?

Going to politely disagree, though your point is well taken. Busentiz has looked good, needs time, and could be a quality piece, perhaps. Pressly has, frankly, been pretty awful. But the arm and potential us there and we've seen results before. Hate to completely give up on him. Like to see someone better than Boshers, but, the guy keeps doing recently when called on.

In theory, Mauer is gone after 2018, Santana and Hughes are gone after 2019, though Hughes could end up retiring still and insurance would kick in to help mitigate his contract early. Santiago, Gibson and Perkins could and should all be gone after this season. (Slight chance Gibson would be retained). Guys like Giminez and Belisle don't earn a ton, but could also be gone, freeing up at least a little more payroll. My entire point being this team has, and will have soon, quite a bit of free payroll to allow them to; A] Sign at least one quality FA SP. Possibly re-sign Garcia, should he look good. And still have the funds to add a quality RP or two. B] Still have the finances to hold on to current young players as they begin to, eventually, reach the arbitration years of their careers. The team could afford to trade Dozier, player replacement wise, if there turns out to be a solid offer for him. Just really not sure what kind of offer Kintzler could bring, but I would consider trading him, but would be happy to bring him back. Keep Santana. We already need more pitching, not less, and we're not getting SP NOW for Santana. Santana regressed to a #3 In 2018? And? I'd still be more than happy with that. Bring up Garver. Keep Santana. Put out feelers for the others and see. Sign the best FA SP next off season. Maybe keep Garcia. Sign a quality RP or 2. Keep working in the young RP. Strongly consider a 1B/DH to work with Mauer and strengthen the lineup.

Absolutely! This is a tantalizing and fun new team to watch. There is so much to like here. But the rebuild is not yet complete. Did anyone truly expect a new FO to come in and suddenly turn this team in to a WS contender overnight? This season has ALWAYS been about evaluation from the top down, behind the scenes and out in front. The fact that we've contended this long, and could still I suppose, is not the point. We are talking about the future. And this season does nothing but speak about the future and what it could bring. IMHO. This team is spoo close to being really good. But despite some very hopeful FA additions in the off season, what this team really needs right now is not a buy or sell mentality, but the ejection of what doesn't fit long term, and some legitimate look sees and auditions of what they have to build for in 2018. Get the guys performing in the mound at AA up to Rochester. Rid yourself of Chaffee and build the new 40 man. Get Garver up. Look long and hard at the young BP arms. Then you will have a more clear picture for 2018.

Old joke: "You know what burns my ass?" "No. What?" "A flame about 3 feet high!" Kind of how I feel as I realized my big post/rant here is almost the same one I made in a similar post on this subject. Lol But my opinion remains the same darnit.

If Garcia does well and likes his 2 months with the Twins, would a re-sign be out of the question? I'd say no.

LOVE Monkeypaws take but can't seem to like or quote on my phone for some reason. 1] This team needs pitching. Period. So we trade away a good, solid, quality, at times excellent SP in Santana to gain a couple more milb pitching prospects that could help in a year or two? With the talented young core of players growing up before us, this helps how in 2018 exactly? Santana appears to be more than capable of being a quality SP for at least another season, maybe two even. But we don't want him because he's not 23? How about keeping him until a prospect is ready to take his spot? 2] I could argue almost the same for Kintzler as above. Is he lights out? Absolutely not. Used properly has he been reliable and quite good? Absolutely. Could he play up his sudden success with the Twins in to a huge payday? Maybe, but I have serious doubts. I'd sign him to a fair 2-3 year deal and won't feel bad if someone overtakes him and he slides down to a 7-8th inning guy who might even have trade value. 3] Love BD. I don't like him batting leadoff but feel he is a quality ballplayer. I don't know what his trade value could be, but as I've stated before, this is the one guy you can afford to move. You have Polanco (get off his back people-young, talented, filled with potential and probably struggling with expectations and his grandfathers death), Escobar, Adrianza with Vielma, Gordon and maybe even Goodrum in the wings. If the value can be found, this is the guy you trade. And this off season, unless Vargas shines still, or you really believe in him, you sign or trade for a 1B to platoon with Mauer for 2018 and DH before taking over fulltime in 2019. You replace Dozier's bat, and have the INF depth to replace him.

1] The Twins have "won" many trades over the years. They've also been "neutral", meaning both teams turned out the same. They've also "lost" some trades. Guess what? So has everyone else. 2] For whatever reason, Murphy regressed tremendously with the Twins offensively, at both the ML and milb level. If Murphy finds himself in AZ, it still doesn't mean, unto itself, that trading a struggling hicks for a young catcher with a solid bat, at the time, was necessarily a mistake. See point #1. I love this trade no matter what happens. Murphy didn't work here, no matter what he does in the future. So we trade someone who doesn't fit in here for a LHRP that has dynamite numbers, pitchability, at least one plus pitch, and has the potential to be at least a serviceable, solid bullpen piece going forward. There is nothing remotely wrong with this trade.

With a smaller payroll than last season, money coming off the books in various installments, and a below median leave average payroll, and with this young core developing, it is time to haul a big to semi big fish for the rotation! Can Berrios develop in to a true #1? Absolutely! Eventually maybe. I love what I see. But nobody can reasonably predict that, and it's not fair for a young guy to be pegged like that. But he's absolutely good, talented, and will only get better. Personally, I am against trading Santana unless an offer is just too good to pass up. We need pitching so we trade a still really good, really solid 2-3 starter? I say no. And with the young talent on its way, and by acquiring a top level FA, you keep your prospects intact for his replacement via development or future trade. Really like what I see in Mejia. But again, very young, only a rookie. The pitch economy will come with time and experience. 5th spot? Can't count on May anytime soon. Too much expectation for the prospects? A solid probably. If Garcia looks good and likes his 2 months in Minnesota, I'd push for a re-sign. Gibson could be a fallback if the rest of the season he shows any sort of the life he's shown more recently. Keep what you have. Add the big FA. Keep the guy you just traded for. And AAA will have real depth to call on and call up. You might even have surplus value at some point in 2018 to trade away.

Buddy! Not being friendly to the Dodgers! Like it!

ARGH! Just beat me to it! Haley gone and made the trade for Garcia. Maybe crazy but not as far fetched as it sounds.

And payback!

Grossman was safe!

Grossman was safe!

LOAD. OF. CRAP

Honesty, I feel Polanco will come back around. He's very young, the season is a grind, and this ML baseball stuff is hard. I further wonder if the death of his grandfather is having a pronounced affect on him. Until, or unless, the Twins make a major move such as a trade of Dozier, I would bring back the roster...player wise...almost entirely intact. I love Planco's potential and believe in him. I also love Escobar as a very nice piece to the puzzle. And Adrianza has been a very nice surprise. I'd have Garver in place of Giminez. And I'd look hard, after acquiring a top rotation arm, for a trade or FA 1B to come in and split 1B/DH with Mauer. They split the spots on an almost daily basis, with Mauer getting some rest says here and there, and have their full time 1B for 2019. With Grossman and Granite, that makes 14 position players, which I know is one too many. But there are injuries and options for a guy here and there.

Trade bait? Maybe? Was it Thrylos, some time ago, that advocated/predicted he'd finish the year in the pen if the Twins made a move?

At this point, we certainly don't know how good he could be. But 24, decent stuff and control, he's worth taking a harder look at. Someone mentioned body of work, not the month of July. And I agree with that. But to succeed the way he has thus far in his introduction to AAA, plus the bug month plus, would seem to indicate improvement to me. And improvement in a player as he advances to a higher level always makes me want to look closer at him.

Nick, agree with all of your points 100%. Let me add the bullpen might have just gotten a little better too, with another, better starter to eat innings. Looking down the road in to next year...not that I want to loose focus on the trade or this season but...via trade of FA, (preferably FA), the Twins still need to acquire another high quality arm to join Santana and Berrios. What if Garcia enjoys the city, this exciting young team, and has success the next two months? You may have a possible re-sign option to fill out the rotation with Mejia. There's a lot to like about this move.

I'd say fair. And I'm betting Garver is up very soon and a return to a 7 man bullpen.

OK, he may not project the way some pitching prospects do, but sooner or later, we have to acknowledge that Slegers is a legitimate SP prospect with at least some potential. Don't we? He has made steady and solid progress since being drafted, albeit nothing special, he is 24, (25 in September), and in his first season, period, of AAA ball. And while there have been a few poor or so-so performances, he has largely been solid and been in a roll. If you are 24, in your very first season of AAA ball, and actually getting better as the season goes on, sooner or later you have to be considered as a decent prospect. Yes?

Is there really room for Vansteensel at this time to move up? And can we re-state the obvious? Why can't Gonsalves, Romero and Jorge finish out at Rochester?