Jham

Hey! Sano showing a little emotion!

Goodness, I hope I'm not one of them! I wouldn't come to Twinsdaily if it weren't for the analysis. Anyway, my post was mostly for fun. I agree that Mr. Goin's contributions add greatly to the conversation. When I expressed fear, it was literally at the prospect that he'd take MY opinions seriously. I thought we'd be an above .500 team this year. I was super off! I thought Hughes, Gibson, and Rosario would have big years. I was super off again! I'm assuming other posters are also frequently wrong... anyway, it was a joke. Twinsdaily is easily the most comprehensive collection of Twins knowledge available to the average reader. But we can also be emotional, short sighted, egocentric, and subject to the lowest common denominator (judged by our most extreme posts).

I will say that I have yet to really see any evidence that the two kids are frustrated or upset after a strike out. Maybe it's confidence, maybe it's resignation, maybe it's apathy. They've definitely got some Joe to them. Goodness, I think I miss Arcia. At least he showed he cared when he k'd or made an error.

I don't know if I'm encouraged or scared that a member of our analytics team pays attention to our posting on the Daily... I think mostly scared...

Listen, I get that players can improve without having a "signature" game. Sano had a stretch last year where he showed a glimpse of his potential. We're still waiting for evidence that Buxton will ever hit, even in stretches, and despite your supposed expectation of regression, you could still hope for progress and hope for a month or two this year like his first month last year. (Could still happen). So you can appreciate a sophomore slump and still be disappointed when it happens. Same way I can expect Buxton to strike out and not expect a HR from Sano and still be disappointed. I guess you are happy with the rate of development with our 2 biggest stars. I'm less so. I'm also not sure Sano is really 23... Interesting graphic with Cruz. Interesting that the walls and k's are so much higher, but the BA are similar indicating a babip differential unless it's just the difference in hr. So to be clear, I've been pumping the breaks with Sano all season. It seems like everyone forgot about his September swoon last year. Now he has a hole in his swing up high, no position, and a seeming lack of coachability and fitness. I did expect he'd have played himself into better condition by now. I still have high hopes, but the results have been a bit frustrating thy far.

You may be reading too much into my statement. I was referring to Buxtons strike out and Sano making the final out of the game. That's it. Disappointing that each are still looking for that aha moment. If Sano is a finished product, i am disappointed. He certainly has not improved on last year, and really after his first month, he's really been... well he certainly hasn't improved. If that indicates he's hit his ceiling, low ball hitting less powerful Nelson Cruzish masher with no defensive value, well i am disappointed. Sorry i had higher expectations for the kid after his rookie season and Cabrera comps. Who do you think we should compare Sano to? Neither seem very capable of lifting or carrying a team right now. But yeah Sano's defense is concerning.

Defense? I mean yes that is upsetting, but i was referring to the hitting. Are you telling me you see improvement in sano and Buxton this year? Defensively, offensively, spiritually, cullinarily, anything?

Man a lot of things to like about this weekend's series, but watching Buxton and Sano fail is troubling to me. I'd love to see some progress that involves the corner stones and not the guys around them.

Nah, Just hoping to win today.

I meant for .205 Buxton. Grossman seems to make sense here.

So vi know the rest of this season is about player development, but do we not have any pinch hitters?

I've heard a lot of Park bashing. But I've yet to hear the "we could have signed more kinzlers" argument. We broke camp with Fien, Jepson, and Perkins who were all similar or better profiles than the guys you are suggesting. At any rate i highly doubt the park signing had any bearing whatsoever on what we spent on the bull pen.

Personally, i feel a winning culture is really important to player development. Young players tend to have fragile confidence and take losses too hard/ blame themselves for losses. If you take losses too hard, and lose alot, eventually your head tells you to stop caring so you aren't mad all the time. Losing also brings out the worst in personalities and often causes conflict in the club house. Kids also eventually learn that they get paid win or lose, so why get frustrated over mounting losses. I think Hunter tipped to that when he returned to a changed twins culture. Other than prospect scouting and development, i think our biggest problem is the perpetuation of a culture that emphasizes that players are paid to play, not paid to win.

Agree 100% on the Plouffe thing last year. The 2nd part confused me. Are you talking last year or this year? Millone's been a pretty solid pitcher for a cheap price and no commitment. He was waived and unclaimed which means he has no street value. I see him as the essence of money ball. Cheap but effective. If waived again, he doesn't have to accept an assignment and can become a FA and I think we'd still be on the hook for the salary difference. (not positive, MLB waiver rules are complex). Twins fans, out of everyone, should be able to see the value in having pitchers who can be signed cheaply and without multiyear commitments. Without Millones or Pelfreys you have to suddenly overpay for Hughes and Nolcascos. That's what set us back (combined with lack of prospect development to replace Hughes and Nolascos in their decline). I'll never get the hate for Millone.

Like everything, it's a game of price is right. A brief extension like the one given to Suzuki in order to buy us time to get Gordon up or otherwise find a longer term solution wouldn't be horrible, as much flack as Zuke's got when playing poorly not-withstanding. With Plouffe being gone, Nunez becomes more valuable to us and us to him. Who's better over the next 2 seasons? Plouffe, Nuenez or Escobar? Interesting debate. I'd have to take Plouffe out of those 3, but he's the most expensive and pretty unlikely to return. I do not see Sano sticking at 3rd, nor Nunez having another year like this, but for the right price, he's a valuable piece. Gordon isn't ready yet, and Polanco is likely a slight downgrade.

That's his floor? Count me in then but consider me a HUGE skeptic on both levels. He blames his back injury on over-striding (trying to throw too hard) and others speculate short turn arounds. Last I checked, you're supposed to keep your stride the same regardless of pen or starter. I have zero confidence that he can stay healthy as a starter if he is breaking down in the pen. Zero. I have never even heard of the argument that starting is less strenuous and less likely to lead to injuries. On top of that his wildness has returned to normal. He leads all relievers in wild pitches despite time on the DL and in Rochester. He struggled with pitch counts even when an effective starter. 200 IP is a virtual impossibility in my mind as of next year. I love your optimism, but your floor is my ceiling for the guy. I'd still like to see him start and have a chance at that ceiling (I don't see him as a closer either) because even a functional starter is more valuable. I just wouldn't count on May to make 35 starts next year and jettison someone for nothing in order to pave the way.

Usually it's a mix... Like stop picking and falling behind... but when he's getting crushed it's hard not to... So it's more like telling him "Hey, be a better more accurate pitcher!" Like he's not trying... Gibson falls into the May paradox, 1st Berrios audition paradox, and the anti-Milone conundrum: accuracy IS stuff. Bite on the slider means little if you can't locate. Location means little if you can't spin it or throw it past someone. Both limit your overall effectiveness. I wouldn't trade Milone, because I don't trust us to put 6 serviceable starters out there next season, he's relatively cheap for a veteran starting pitcher, he's a perfect money ball guy in that he's a better performer than his $ value or trade value. Nolasco is probably a better performer than his perceived value in the league, but WAAAY below his $ value, so I'd be pretty surprised if he's moved. Santana is a low motivation move on both sides and unlikely to be moved. There is an apparent lack of need for Dozier or Plouffe across the league, I doubt either will be moved unless Plouffe is an August guy who could maybe platoon and pinch hit in a playoff race like Morneau was when he was dealt. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Rosario was dealt. Organization hasn't valued defense in the outfield, Kepler and Buxton are likely to be mainstays, Grossman could warrant a look, corners are easy to fill and Left would be a prime location to upgrade if we look to contend anyway. Nunez is a likely trade candidate in my mind. Interestingly, Nunez has a higher perceived value than Plouffe. Plouffe will likely not risk an arb next season and probably take a pay cut next year. Who's more likely be good next couple seasons, Nunez or Plouffe? The rest of this season and playoffs?I'd look to move Nunez and Escobar. I'd deal with Plouffe in the off season if he couldn't be moved. Especially since I believe Sano will be full time DH by next year. Vargas maybe if he can stay hot could be a good NL bench bat with his switch hitting power. Perhaps a trade sweetener. Polanco could also be a trade sweetener, but probably only if we knew we were planning on retaining Plouffe. All relievers are probably on the table, but I'd probably talk some extensions first (unpopular). Kintzler and Abad have pitched well enough to warrant keeping around at a low price. I'd leverage them against each other before trading one or both. It's not like we won't need pen help next year regardless of trade scenarios. I think we keep Dozier because he's sort of popular, relative cheap, and difficult to improve from.

I hope we win a bunch here. If we don't with kep and bux and sano already here and presumably berrios as well... what hope do we have then?

It probably seems that way because of the availability heuristic. We remember pretty much every time a Twins move made us angry. When we agree with a move, it doesn't generate an emotional response, and it blends into the background. The underwhelming results of the more popular moves also make these call-ups less memorable. Combine with a probable level of organizational conservatism based on an inability to sift through veterans and prospects alike (some truth to it) and it will seem like the Twins always move up X when the fans want to see Y.

Yeah. Totally. Seems like they wanted to see Ramirez for a bit, then realized their supposed mistake and corrected it. Ideally I'd like to see some more "corrections". May to the rotation, even if I suspect he'll end up back in the pen, Chargois up, and Berrios up.

That's almost easier. Options vs. out of options. As it turned out it wouldn't have mattered! We got Boshers out of an independent league for nothing. But I'm still intrigued by a little upside. He played 25 games in 2013 with Angels, but do not know if that qualifies as an option year if he was just a September guy. If Boshers is in AAA, GM's forget about him. If Boshers' is with the big club and faces the Sox and strikes out Papi and Xander in a big spot, GM's notice, if we're set on trying to trade him (we should have at least 1 more option year depending on whether he can be a minor league FA). I think Buddy > Shaggy til the deadline. I'd like to see Wimmers get some innings as well (or give him his release and let him try to catch on with someone else).

A Cubs fan posted a proposal for Abad. He's willing to give up a former first round pick in Billy Mckinney. Bad news is he has a career .648 OPS in 4 seasons of MILB.

Boshers over Ramirez was easy. May off the DL and Boshers down was fairly easy as well. Boshers is a 28 year old rookie with options. May has been a fixture in the pen for the last 2 years. Ramirez was pretty bad and able to clear waivers. Boshers over Chargois was somewhat surprising. But it's not like Boshers didn't earn the call. He's maybe had the best season of any reliever in the organization when looking at his AAA and big league success. The frustration over no Shaggy is understandable. The frustration over Buddy over Shaggy is less so to me. Someone's going to get traded in a minute anyway.

So I'm fine with the team giving looks to guys they need to decide on right now. Polanco, Wimmers,and Buddy. Along with varg. I'd maybe give them a peak before calling on shaggy and Melo and Hildenberg.

To the rotation is bananas though. A lot more would need to go wrong in my eyes to consider that.