Dman

You are right working on walks and pitching more efficiently are very minor things to work on. He is better and more ready than other pitchers we have sent up. However, given the rotation is currently full and it will take some time sort things out he does have things he can work on in AAA until a spot opens up. If waiting until June or July helps us hang onto this guy longer then I like that plan better. Although a potential rotation of Meyer, Deduno, Nolasco, Hughes, and Gibson could give us a fighting chance this year if things rolled right. A lot of things would have to go right though. Who knows if he pitches two more shutouts with double digit K's there might be no way to keep him down any longer. Time will tell.

Gotta say I like seeing the Meyer K's. 11 K's a game is something you don't typically see from a Twins pitcher and that is very exciting. If he has a couple more dominant starts it is going to be very, very hard to keep him down on the farm. I don't like the walks though and I think AAA is still the place for him to be. I still think Meyer needs to show a little more control before being called up. The walks will kill him in MLB and he might as well straighten that out in AAA. I am with other posters who would like to see Deduno replace Pelfrey. If Correia can't pull it together in the next 3 starts or so then let's make a move to Meyer, Darnell or Johnson. As excited as I am I don't see a need to rush him. If he remains consistently this good then June or July works for me. I also think there is a good chance that Pelfrey and Correia turn things around once the weather warms up a little. Time will tell and I doubt the Twins will promote him unless he continue's to dominate and lowers the walk rate.

Mejia is going to be good with the bat the only question is power for him. He seems pretty tiny so I don't know if he will ever develop power and that will make it tough for him to beat out other prospects. I thought the main reason he got sent down was because of Nunez but I could be wrong.

I am a bit bummed at his regression. I was wondering if he was hurt or trying to hit more home-runs or something because I had never seen so many O'fers in a row from him. Hope he gets it going again soon because he needs to stay sharp to get noticed.

Hey someone stole my idea on this. Who says Joe Mauer isn't a mentor? It looks like the whole team is following his approach. What I don't understand is that as poor as Joe is hitting right now why do they still walk him? Why don't pitchers get more aggressive in the zone when they know we aren't swinging? Price went after the hitters and made it to the 8th inning I believe. I think the Twins have proven that pitchers need to throw strikes or they won't make it out of the 4th inning. I really like the team approach but at some point they are going to have to actually hit the ball.

Fuld has had an incredible first two games. If he could do that night in and night out then maybe Aaron would have to worry a little, but typically he is a low .200 hitter which is not any better than Hicks. Also Hicks can hit for power and has a canon arm. I realize Aaron's batting average is low but if you compare him to Revere who he replaced their OBP is nearly the same and Revere was our lead off man when he was here. I am concerned about Hicks number of K's and how easy pitchers seem to be able to strike him out sometimes, so if he could just make a little more contact I think that would solve a lot of his problems. Easier said than done at that level though. I'm not ready to give up on him yet especially not for Sam Fuld.

I guess that would be another way to say it, but Gardy seems to think just about everyone does that. James isn't real fast and he doesn't hit Home runs so that might keep him in the utility role. Just nice to see him doing well.

I am cheering him on. He is one of my favorite players. He just seems scrappy, a tough out, solid in the field. He might not have the high end talent that some guys do but he gets the most out of the talent he has. He kind of reminds me of Colabello in that no body seems to give this guy a chance and he just keeps doing better every chance he gets. The way his swing looks I really think he is going to make it. This guy is the real deal. I hope the Twins can find a place for him to play everyday because he competes hard, is passionate and fun to watch.

I was a flip flopper on Kubel. At first I thought it was a good idea for the Twins to get him and then after spring training I thought keeping him was an extremely bad idea. Luckily I don't run the Twins front office. I never imagined him having this kind of success this early in the season. I hope he can keep it up and make me eat even more crow.

Yeah looking at it from that perspective frames things in a significantly different way than I think about it. I look at it from a stats and player comparison point of view. Not based on the height of his and the teams success and popularity. After he won the MVP he had me thinking he was going to hit HR's almost as well as Morneau and that would have made him a truly amazing player so I guess I can see why some people feel a little bit shafted on the contract vs production issue. It just irks me that someone as good as he is has so many (maybe not on this board but certainly others) blasting him for either things he doesn't control or to change who he is as one of the most successful hitters in baseball. I agree with other posters who think he has tried at times to hit more HR's but his swing just doesn't have quite enough umph to punch it out. I guess there is no way around the emotional effect he has on people. Like I said he makes me crazy with that first pitch sometimes and creates more angst and second guessing if the at bat goes bad from there. However, if you think or look at him logically then you have to admire the player that he is.

JB I am inclined to agree with you. I know from personal experience that he elicits an emotional response when batting. I can't count the number of times I have screamed at my screen after Joe takes a meatball first pitch down the middle of the plate. It makes my stomach turn knowing he won't see a pitch that good the rest of his at bat. Only to see him eventually draw a walk, get a single or double later in the count. Granted I have also seen him strike out on three pitches far too much as well. So I get the angst and understand that piece of criticism but it breaks down once you look at his over all stats and realize he is one of the best hitters in baseball. If Home runs or a more aggressive approach = leadership then I don't think Joe Mauer is going to live up to those expectations. I know lots of people think he should because of the money he makes and being the face of the franchise but he can't seem to hit home runs and his approach to hitting is what it is and may land him in the hall of fame. For me personally I don't think he has to be the home run guy on this team to be successful or for the team to be successful. Do we need home run hitters, you bet but it doesn't have to be Joe. So can we criticize Joe for the things he can't do, sure. My problem though is what is the point. Every player in baseball has a weakness in some area if you look hard enough. Why nitpick over the things Joe doesn't do well when there is so much more that he does better than anyone else in all of baseball? That is where my emotion or push back comes from. It seems like some go out of there way to blame him for all the teams problems and I don't think that is true or fair. If only Joe mentored or was a leader then this team would be better. If only he swung at the first pitch the team would be better. If only he hit more HR's this team would be better. None of that is true. Baseball is a team sport. There are 12 or 13 guys that have to do their part for the team to have a chance to win. Joe can't play all 9 positions. There are only two players that I can think of who appeared to be able to single handedly win games for there teams. Pujols and Cabrera come to mind and the reason they could impact games is because they had great pitching staffs which kept them in games until the end where a home run or timely base hit could be the difference. Joe hasn't had the good fortune of good pitching in quite some time and he is not Pujols or Cabrera with the bat. He isn't going to single handedly rescue this franchise. He will need a supporting cast for the team to be successful.

Thanks I should have read that before I posted again. I am learning new things in this thread. There is a lot more math in this game than I ever figured there would be.

Yeah I thought about it more after I posted and there is the chance for the extra base hit or single that would score the runner from second base which a walk would not do. The trouble with Joe though is we are really talking about a single or a double as the most likely outcome since HR and triples are rare for him. The problem I have though is that not all singles would be a better result than a walk. A first pitch single with no runners on would be worth less than a 6 pitch walk in my opinion. I haven't done the math though so I could be out to lunch on that thought. Maybe if all things being equal it is better for example a 6 pitch walk or 6 pitch single. I just don't feel like that formula takes everything into consideration.

I guess I don't understand why a walk would be less valuable than a single on the first pitch. Isn't the idea to make the pitcher work by taking pitches and then still get on base. If you ascribe to the theory of taking pitches which most teams do then isn't taking pitches more advantageous than not taking pitches? I am not sure I understand can you elaborate?

Lots of people on here knew the pitching likely wouldn't be good this year. Better than last year was the best that most could agree on. I guess I drank the positive Kool-aide because I thought they would be better than this. Granted it's early with plenty of time to turn things around but I didn't see this poor of a start coming from the pitchers. I think most of us predicted that the hitting might keep us losing but the pitching has been bad from the starters to the bullpen. I hate to agree with Powers but the Twins are making me lose confidence and they do need to pull it together soon.

Dang I am wrong yet again. I hate statistics. I wonder who was first those years?

I think stats and eye test will bare this out. Mauer has no power so unless someone is in scoring position there is no need to pitch around him. If I was pitching to Mauer I would throw Strike one right down the middle. Low and away for strike two and then play with him a little throwing junk at him hoping for a swing and miss or a weak ground ball. You would think pitchers would be more successful against him since he essentially gives them 2 strikes almost every at bat.

I am starting to understand the other side better but I can only think of two players who were the type of player that most would like Joe to be and that is Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols. Unfortunately Joe doesn't posses the HR power they have and is unlikely to impact games in the way they could. His approach is also different as he is typically less aggressive at the plate. I can see how people find his approach frustrating and I guess I do at times as well. He is an enigma. In the end though I still admire his approach and the player that he is. I guess I am more content with letting him do what he does best. Others would like him to be something I don't see him ever becoming and I guess I don't find that fair. Especially since he is one of the best in baseball. I guess the lightning rod remains as the sides will just agree to disagree.

The other thing you have to consider here is that once the bases were loaded the pitcher had to throw strikes and likely good ones. Plouffe was going to see better pitches than Mauer. The other team likely wanted Mauer to chase and they had a base open. Maybe they preferred to pitch to Plouffe I don't know. At any rate I don't think it was horrible to take the walk in that situation.

Yeah I've never heard of Joe really "mentoring" someone not that it hasn't happened but given who he is I doubt it would be like Hunter or Pucket. I think you are right about him in that regard I just don't think those are things are "necessary" for him to do. Coaching is not irrelevant but a player has to have a certain skill set before any of that matters and its influence only goes so far. Mentoring\leadership to me is more about sharing experience and typically about helping build confidence in someone who maybe hasn't "been there" before. Important but minimal in relation to skill in my opinion.

I cannot defend the hit-able pitches argument as I have seen him take strike one right down the middle maybe thousands of time now. It is his approach and yes even I have been exasperated by it. And yet he continues to be successful at what he does and in some cases one of the best in baseball. Taking pitches is an important part of baseball as well. All teams try and get their players to do it. Eventually it forces the pitcher to tire and throw hit-able strikes as the pitch count rises. You can't swing at strike one all the time, but yes Mauer could every once in a while. I can't argue that point. At the same time until he becomes less successful it seems hard to complain about it.

Touche'. Lot's of players have several mentor's and coaches throughout there career's. These people coach and mentor hundreds and some thousands of players in their lifetime and only a tiny fraction become successful why? Same person, same approach, same drills, Skill level was and is different. As you look it will always come down to that. Otherwise with a little Torri mentoring we all could become Denard Span etc.

Personally I think Joe has tried at times to hit more home runs as I saw his average drop and noticed him hitting balls to the warning track more often at certain points in past years. I don't know what it is but in my opinion I don't think his swing works for the HR. He just is who is and power is not in the cards unless he plays in a stadium more conducive to HR's. That is just my opinion no facts to back it up but he doesn't hit a lot of HR's and I don't see him changing his approach.

Certainly Mauer could be more aggressive at the plate if he chose to. You make a valid point there. From my perspective the most important thing for a batter is to not make an out. A walk, a single, a double, a HR doesn't matter the objective is to not make an out. If the pitcher is going to pitch to the corners and gives you very tough pitches to be successful you try and wait for a hitters count and get a good pitch. If that doesn't happen you take a walk. Given that Mauer's BA is currently worse than Plouffe and that Plouffe is a better power hitter than Mauer to me the walk makes sense in that context. Let the player with the better BA and better power get the chance to not make another out. Most coaches and athletes say that you take what the other team gives you and trust your teammates to come through. I think he did that.

You are right. I get a bit to emotional when passion and leadership get equated with skill. Those arguments bother me because there is nothing factual there. I try to stay objective but I lose it when it comes to those two things. Yours is the more balanced view. I will try and let it go.