mikelink45

I have begun to write blogs this fall, just for fun because I have some off beat ideas I like to share with other baseball people. I did not even know there was a financial reward - it was not my incentive. I have published a lot in other areas - books, articles, etc, but sports is an interest and not my professional expertise. It took me a while to recognize how easy your blog space is to use and I have enjoyed putting up some essays. Then I post those essay links on Facebook to entice friends to check them out. When it comes to forums I enjoy the give and take and discussions, but I do not see a lot of exchanges taking place in the blog sections. The exchange of ideas is what makes the forum fun. Maybe an article highlighting some blogs that people should check out would be good to direct people to the right hand side of the page. The other fact is that most of us do not have the video access or the ability to check out all the minor leagues and we feel limited on what we have to contribute on a regular basis. For me, the blogs (after a long delay) have been fun to post and I love checking out TD each morning. I have no big ideas, but I do appreciate having your site here.

Maybe it was seeing Bo Jackson on a commercial, looking like a younger version of George Foreman that got me thinking about two sport athletes, maybe it is the big deal that is being made over Ohtani being a two way pitcher/hitter in the major leagues, or perhaps it was looking at the baseball cards from my old favorite Milwaukee Braves, but suddenly I was thinking about athletes, baseball players, who actually excelled in two sports at the major league level. Not the Michael Jordan type of athlete who day dreamed about being a superstar in another professional league, but those who actually made it to the professional ranks in two separate sports. Bo Jackson achieved great legendary status as both a professional Football Player and a professional Baseball player. He not only played the two sports until injury ruined his career, but he made the all-star team in both Baseball and Football. His accumulated statistics for an eight year baseball career were: 598 H, 141 HR, 200 BB, 841K 415 RBI, .250AV, OPS 784 8.3 WAR Another Football baseball player who really excelled and is in the hall of fame for one sport and made the all-star team in the other was Deion Sanders who made it as a two sport star two years after Bo Jackson and played major league baseball from 1989 to 2001 and football from 1989 – 2005.. Speed played well in both sports and in baseball he had an accumulated 5.5 WAR, 558 hits and a .263 batting average with 39 homeruns, and 186 stolen bases. His OPS was 711. One year he led the league in triples, twice he was second in stolen bases and he played in the 1992 world series for the braves. Gene Conley had been a Boston Celtic and a Milwaukee Brave. He was tall, but especially for that time. This was before we got used to Randy Johnson and seeing a tall man make the mound seem to grow to a mountain. But Gene was not a HOF player in either basketball or baseball, just a good player and, somehow, I doubt if he had any coaching that new how to take advantage of his natural talent and his length. Today, we know that the angle of a tall pitcher is significant and so is the extra reach that gains them some inches if not feet to shrink the distance from mound to bat. http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/b5fecb6f He played in the major leagues for 11 years, with the Braves in both Boston and Milwaukee for six years and then with the Phillies and the Red Sox. His record was 91- 96 with a 3.82 era, 10 saves, 888K in 1588.2 innings, and a career whip of 1.33. He was on the World Series winning Milwaukee Braves team. During that same period he played four years with the Celtics, during which they won 3 world championships and he averaged six points and six rebounds per game. He came back to the NBA after a period where he was only in one sport and played two more years. He was born in 1930 in Oklahoma and in his high school years he was a three-sport star in Richland Washington, adding track to his repertoire. At 18, the six-foot eight-inch freshman chose Washington State where he was the star and leadING scorer for the Cougars. In 1949 he was a Northwest league all-star as a pitcher and played in New York in the Hearst all-star game beating Frank Torre (Joe’s brother who would be his teammate on the braves). In 1950 his college team was runner up for the national champion. He then turned pro. In his first minor league year he won 20 games and had a 3 – 1 K/BB rate. He used a fastball and a curve and never added a third pitch to his arsenal, something that might have lifted him even higher in this career accomplishments. By 1952 he was the fourth starter in the braves rotation that was anchored by Warren Spahn and Lew Burdette. That year he played for the Celtics (with permission) but was late for spring training and sent to the minors where he won 23 games and was the American Association player of the year. In 1954 he was in a car accident which would give him back problems that would plague his career. Still he won 14 games and pitched in the All-star game and finished third for Rookie of the year behind Wally Moon and Ernie Banks. In 1955 he blew out his rotator cuff and I mean blew it out. The popping sound that came at the moment of injury was heard by his catcher – Del Crandall. No Tommy John surgery then, he pitched with it and had over 100 cortisone shots during the remainder of his career. Returning to the Celtics for another championship run he angered the Braves GM and was traded to the Phillies where he won 12 games for the last place team. Retiring to Foxboro, Massachusetts where he and his wife ran a paper company. His final victory was a personal one, when a fan told him he was too good to be seen drunk and he gave up liquor from that moment on. His sports from then on were golf and skiing. The final question that I had was how many had this two-sport career? In the early years of baseball and the NFL there were many who crossed over with nearly 70 having a career in both football and baseball beginning with such career stars as Jim Thorpe, Ernie Nevers, and George Halas. Seven football hall of famers played major league baseball. One of the later day stars that preceded Bo Jackson was Vic Janowicz, the 1954 Heisman trophy winner from Ohio State played baseball for the Pirates for two years and then football for the Redskins for two years. Brian Jordan is not a household name (neither is Gene Conley) but he had a 15 year career with the St Louis Cardinals during which he accumulated a 32.8 WAR, had 1454 hits, batted 282 with 184 Homeruns and 821 Rbis. His OBP was 333 and slugging – 455. Nice career. He played three years with the Falcons had 5 interceptions and four sacks. Drew Henson was the last of the two-way football/ baseball players, but he only makes this as a footnote and not because he excelled in either. Basketball had a much lower number of two-way players, with 12. From that list the most impressive baseball talent was Dick Groat of the Pirates and Dave DeBusschere and Danny Ainge starred in basketball more than baseball. The National Hockey League has not had crossover stars, but this article gives you six prominent baseball players (including Justin Morneau and Tom Glavine) who were good at Hockey - http://mlbfancave.mlb.com/fancave/blog/article.jsp?content=article&content_id=44302058 Times have changed in many ways and one in particular – the length of seasons. Basketball playoffs are now finished in June – eliminating half the baseball season and baseball goes into November eliminating the beginning of basketball and football camp is in July and the Superbowl is half way through the basketball season. Too be honest, I preferred the more seasonal schedules. Basketball and Hockey cannot sustain my interest when it warms up and I am not ready for football until September. There may not be duel sport heroes like these any more, but they deserve a special place in our sports history.

This has become a joke off season. Players who cannot play next season, players with no resume at all in Rule V, and now players who are more than past their prime. I am so excited to see these new analytic geniuses really making exciting changes. If they are desperate to make a new signing how about adding another name to the bloated coaching fraternity and letting our young players carry the load.

If this is what the new FO achieves I am really frustrated. We have bats for DH and 1B. I would rather have Grossman than Napoli. I remember how TR loved to have reunions with his old players and we kept being the last stop on a career that was already over. I do not want this to be the home for old Indians. I wish I could think of something more effective than NO, but No is accurate. No to his bat, no to his speed, no to his fielding, no to taking a spot on the 25 man roster. All the players we have read about this year and now this is the big rumor. Unless Darvish insists on having him as a roommate we do not need him. I believe that we have enough coaches on the team now.

Nice essay. It keeps a spark in the old hot stove. Your premise is probably right on both - too long, too short, but Johann's case is also one of doing his best outside the lime light. For the Mets he was a constant tease and frustration and as a disappointment he will not get NY voters so going off the list in the first year would be no surprise. ​Mauer is one of the most interesting of all the choices because one factor he has going for himself is a greater awareness and acceptance of concussion issues. His case is not a too long or too short case as much as a medical card that says he and we are lucky that his career has come back at all. I wonder how much that will factor in. As we saw with Blyleven, if the right group backs him, there are many ways a HOF career can be justified and lead to induction.

Wait and see. Is this what we had in mind as we anticipated the FO changes and actions? Are we just waiting to see if we get Darvish or are we waiting for something else? We can have all the statistics possible and even make up some, but if the live arm is not good enough, if the control is lacking, if the assortment of pitches is not adequate the stats are not going to get anyone out.

I love these old stories - I laughed before I even got to the punch line.

Here is Mudcat on an old 45 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=QoL9wBmZg2c

I read this list of roving, coaching, coaching the coaches, coaches and wonder why. I really have a difficult time seeing how they all have functional tasks and avoid getting in one another's way.

Last night I was doing research for a lecture I am going to give when I guide a trip to Nashville next fall. Nashville is most famous for the Grand Ole Opry and performers like Bill Monroe so I was looking at the history of Blue Grass – Monroe is the acknowledged creator of this form of music – and all of a sudden I was into baseball. Hard to imagine, but when a lecturer and college instructor begins researching the path can lead a number of directions. The passage from the book, Bluegrass, by Neil Rosenberg caught my attention was: “ At about this time Monroe added a new dimension to his show, taking advantage of his love of baseball to reconstitute the band as a baseball team. While the crew setting up the tent show finished their job (they traveled in advance of the band), Monroe or one of his band members would issue a challenge to the local ball club. Fiddler Jim Shumate, with Monroe in 1944-1945, recalls that “we had good crowds just for a ball game. We had a lot of fun. We played for keeps and had a good team. We had uniforms and everything. I played shortstop.” Former pro-ball player Clyde Moody pitched and Monroe, who would, but for his poor sight, “have liked to be a baseball player”…” They would often have their tent show music right at the ball field and after the concert the musicians would change clothes and the ball game would commence. One of the band members said that “having the ball team was good for our spirit; it helped build morale in the band.” These road trips could be up to six months long and that wears on any performer so diversion was very important. The concerts were very popular and the games probably drew more fans than most minor league games did. Monroe liked it so much that he formed two ball teams, one permanently in Nashville called the Bluegrass Ballclub, and one that toured – the Bluegrass All-Stars. This was the age of barnstorming teams – image Ruth and Gehrig coming to your town to play against a local team! It was also an age when every town had a team. America was truly the National Past time and Monroe’s teams fit right in with the era. They would drive 3000 miles a week making their tent shows and ball games, always getting back to Nashville for Saturday night on Grand Ole Opry. With 5 or 6 games a week the team would play over 110 games a year. Monroe loved to reminisce about the club, “When we would come to bat, we had two men that could, mind you, get on base. They was hard to get out. The third man, you couldn’t strike him out hardly at all – he could hit that ball. The cleanup man and the fifth man was mighty at drivin’ in runs. It was hard to get by them first five men up there. And we also had two men who could steal home.” Monroe was not the first nor the only one to have a ball team. Louis Armstrong had a team called the Secret Nine and Cab Calloway Band’s team included both Cab and his bass player. These two black owned teams were before Monroe, but what set Monroe apart was the fact that he was White and no other white bands did this at that time. Later Tom Dorsey would sponsor a team as well as Lionel Hampton and Harry James. Monroe’s biggest regret was that his team was scheduled to play The House of David Team and they cancelled the game. He really wanted that one, it would have felt like the majors to him. Monroe had arranged to have Dizzy Dean play for them if that game had taken place. By the 1950s television changed things. Fewer fans went to see minor league teams play and there were fewer town ball teams. Monroe said, “It seemed like baseball kinda played out. I don’t really know what happened to it right there, but a in a lot of cities it just stopped.” Television would create new issues for the nation and for the sport. New revenue streams, more rich and poor teams, access to MLB in minor league cities. Monroe looked back at this change and said, “They’re a lot alike-it seems like the people that loves baseball are the people that loves bluegrass music.” It is hard to imagine any sport being so ingrained into a national psyche the way baseball was. Maybe soccer in most countries has this status now, but in the first half of the twentieth century baseball was everywhere and the ultimate trip to the majors came through townball, school sports, semi-pro, minor league, independent leagues and finally the limited sixteen major league teams. The best of competitive athletes were baseball players. http://research.sabr.org/journals/bluegrass-baseball-barnstorming-band-and-ball-club https://muse.jhu.edu/article/266309/pdf

As a person who has consistently said prove it I can add this to a lot of decisions that have not impressed me. Which might mean that I am just another fan who does not get it. But this maneuver is one that just does not have anything that even looks like it could be one of those - I guess I knew best - moments for the FO. ​We have had a lot of isn't that clever notes, but this is one of those - it really isn't clever ones.

No.I like him, but we have a roster full of possible extensions and still a lot of holes to plug. Somewhere we need to maintain some flexibility. Keep signing him, but don't make a long term commitment.

I am sure you are right. Like many of the players he had different jobs between seasons, but I think he finished with Coca Cola. Thanks for the note.

Boy were the times different. Isn’t that Lounge singer Denny McLain? Why is Bobby Veach mining for Coal between seasons. When comparing athletes from different generations there so many obstacles that statistics just cannot stand up. When someone quotes WAR for a player from the first half of the twentieth century to compare them with current players I have to believe that the person doing so knows it is a ridiculous exercise. It was not only how they were used in the games, the equipment, training, and philosophy of the day, it was where sports ranked in society. A recent conversation with Author/singer Douglas Wood had us both reminiscing about driving to International Falls and getting our gas tanks filled by Bronko Nagurski, the Canadian born young man grew up in the woods, lumber camps and hard work were common for him and his Ukrainian parents. He went on to be in the inaugural class of inductees in both the Professional and the College Football Hall of Fames and was a giant in professional wrestling, but he was always a small town guy running his own gas station and putting on the gas caps to tight that people had to come back to Bronko’s to buy more gas since no one else could loosen the cap. It is a good legend. But what Doug and I both remember is that parents would want to have their young sons shake hands with Bronko. His ring size of 19 ½ might help understand how you would see your hand literally disappear inside his big mitt. But he was not the only working man professional athlete. We know minor leaguers still get jobs that put them in mainstream society, but this article https://prestonjg.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/off-season-jobs-of-major-league-baseball-players-in-the-winter-of-1958-59/ gives a list of 1958 jobs including Hall of Famers like Eddie Mathews and Early Wynn running construction companies, and Nellie Fox running a bowling alley. What a time that was! No they were not just doing it for publicity. In those days salaries and revenues did not allow for 12 month athletes with personal trainers. Smoky Burgess drove a lumber truck and Stan Musial had a bowling alley and a number of businesses to manage, but during the 1940s he sold Christmas Trees from a lot with Red Schoendienst and other Cardinal stars. Roy Campenella ran a liquor store. Jim Palmer pitched a shut out in the World Series and then sold furniture for the winter. Try to imagine Yogi Berra selling you hardware in a Sears store or working as a head waiter in a restaurant you frequent. Or you could buy flowers at Lou Brock’s floral shop. Roger Bresnahan worked as a detective in the off season. When Waite Hoyt was a young player he worked in a mortuary In the winter and Eddie Plank gave tours of the Gettysburg battlefield. Jackie Robinson made his winter dollars selling appliances and doing barnstorming. And both Willie Mays and Willie McCovey sold cars! Our Minnesota Twins took work seriously too – Bob Allison sold cars and real estate and I would love to have some help filling out the resume’s of our early Twins players.

Obviously now on my Christmas gift list.

I just got down another bottle. The excitement is getting hard to contain.

Okay, I am fine with this, but I hope it is not the signature move of the winter meetings. I hope this is one of those nice assets after signing the guys who we really need.

Wonderful - I will continue to celebrate.

You could be right about what he drank - I was too young then to be accurate on what was in the glass, but I certainly remember him enjoying something - here is a fun video - https://vimeo.com/113401282 - but I have since learned - gin and onions was the Hall drink of choice.

In the swirl of praise for infrastructure work the FO is still way behind in showing me the things I am most interested in - the players on the field. Signing Pineda did nothing for me, the loss of Burdi and Bard and the pick up of Kinley are quite confusing. I hoped some of you with better stat magic at hand could show me why I should have a better opinion of this surge in activity. At this stage, if I understand our not so Hot Stove season - we have hired lots of new coaches and filled more cubicles in the office - but of course we have no metrics to judge these moves. We have Lost Belisle, Burdi, and Bard and added Kinley - which is no where close to break even. Out starting staff got a man who will not pitch in 2018 giving us a wonderful rotation on the DL and minimum expectations for 2019. What other excitement am I missing?

Thanks for the invite. If I do not make it, it is the 110 mile drive not the name!

I admire Sabr, BUT Halsey was best with a cigar, a whiskey, and an audience. I can still hear his laugh in my memory and also the stories that would go from inning to inning until he forgot what he was talking about. If there was ever a broadcaster that was meant for the hot stove league, when they really did sit around the old hot stove, he is it.

Yuch! I am really not excited by this. Maybe we want that Yankee look of Hughes and Pineda in 2019. We rehab and he moves on. If we have not filled out the rotation so that he would be without a position by 2019 the FO will have failed. Lets stop being the clever boys on the block and sign what we need to fill the holes that we have now and develop the young players for 2019.

I am amused by your group name. Having grown up with Halsey as the cigar smoking, hacking, raspy voice behind the old time stories and lots of laughter. It there is someone who does not represent Sabr thinking I believe Halsey would be an icon!

Use the relief arms we have - get a good starter and we will be in good shape.