ThePuck

Semantics aside, Span getting trading to the Nats wasn't a surprise was my point. Would have been a bigger shock if he hadn't been at least traded. Revere trade was a huge shock.

Span and the Nats were linked for like two, three years...the shocking thing is it didn't happen earlier, it was certainly no shock that it happened.

That's the organizational talent ranking of 22, includes the Major league talent, I believe. In any event, what you're saying is, the farm system rankings are flaky and have to be taken with a grain of salt. EXACTLY how I feel. And if we are to believe BAs ranking there, MAN, Ryan left our farm system in a shambles. BTW, I specifically annotated the rankings I provided were done end of 2009, not the beginning of 2009. At the end of 2009, BA had the FARM SYSTEM between 6th and 15th. http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=104026

They should have said a bit more in that quote...finished it like this. 'We have absolutely no proof of this, no examples to give, you'll just have to take our word on it. Now where did my abacus go?'

Here's something interesting about farm system rankings. At the end of 2009, Baseball Prospectus named the Twins the 9th best system. Here are the players they specifically referred to. Revere, Robertson, Mulvey, Guerra, Ramos, Benson, McCardell, Humber, Slama, Delaney, Hicks, Parmelee, Manship, Morales, Mijares. Our best and most talented. Top 10 ranking then hasn't done us much good, so far..

Gardy had never seemed to care about players' personal accomplishments (Albers, Slowey). I, personally, do not care if he gets win 1000. I do, however, want the Twins to win more games and if that means he gets his 1000 wins, so be it.

And he's not likely to trade prospects to acquire proven MLB talent either. From another article: 'To address all the shortcomings, Ryan might have to get creative. His one area of strength is his farm system. The Twins can covet their prospects all they want, but no team has seen all its top 10 prospects thrive in the majors. Is Ryan willing to trade prospects for established talent? For the right deal, is he willing to move one of the mega prospects such as Buxton or Sano for pitching? “Depending on who you are talking about and the situation and all that, if something comes up like that where someone presents something like that, we will take it all under consideration and see what the ramifications are,” Ryan said.' http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/224966352.html?page=2&c=y

I believe what he was saying is that most players whose primary position is catcher don't play 162 games. You don't expect a catcher to play 150+ games. Right now you have guys like Molina and Perez who are barely over 130 games played, period. You do, however, expect a 2B to play closer to the whole amount of games.

The talent put on the field in 2011 and 2012, were mostly Ryan's guys, not Smith's guys cause, if you remember correctly, Smith was only here 4 years. The guys he signed internationally and in the draft hadn't even gotten through the Twins notoriously slower promotion cycle to the majors. Ryan was also an adviser to Smith. Ryan also picked Smith to succeed him. Ryan also failed to get Hunter or Santana signed to an extension prior to 2007 and then really ticked both of them off when trading Castillo. Then he bailed and left the mess for Smith. To put this all on Smith's shoulder's is wrong....and darn him for actually spending the % of funds available to try and make the team better...I mean, how dare he follow through with the whole premise of the reason we needed a new ballpark, for more revenue to compete and then actually spend it. You're right, no wonder Pohlad fired him...

article from Star Tribune: Making an offseason splash not exactly Twins' style | Star Tribune Ryan contends that the signing of Josh Willingham to a three-year, $21 million contract before the 2012 season — a record deal for a Twins free agent — is evidence that he will take a plunge into the rich end of the free-agent pool. “I think you are mistaken when you don’t think $21 million is huge,” Ryan said. Hmmm.... 'I just know [Ryan] is going to be involved,” Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. “He knows this is not working right now, and he knows we have kids who are pretty good players coming. Trying to add to our pitching staff is not risky, it is a must. We have to have it. That has been sitting right in front of us.”' Double Hmmm

And there's a whole show on MLB Network based off that exact premise. Reynolds and Kenny facing off. On top of that, some people take a lot of pride in being 'old school', for whatever reason...or at least unless that phrase is used in a supposed negative manner then all of a sudden it's insulting. I'm also reminded of a very popular phrase, 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks'. It's been around, forever... Anyway, back on topic.

The guy I was hoping we'd get after canning Gardy last offseason (which didn't happen) was Francona. Then I wanted Ryne Sandberg. Francona could be going to the playoffs with a not extremely talented Indians team and Ryno just had interim taken off his manager title. So now my choice is Dave Martinez, TB bench coach.

Yes, Torii Hunter himself won more playoff games than Mauer did by himself...baseball has become tennis... Punto must be better than either of them, and tougher too...HE won a World Series all by himself...

It's an issue because there seems to be this popular idea that we shouldn't utilize every avenue to get better as soon as possible (i.e., free agency) because we are 'rebuilding'. That we shouldn't be bothered funds available aren't being used because we are 'rebuilding'. That we should meekly accept all this losing because we are rebuilding. So I asked, what are we doing, as a rebuilding team, that every other team, including teams that are contenders, aren't doing? Rebuilding seems to be an excuse to defend not spending, to defend yet another carp season, to defend in general...so we should at least know what we're doing that is unique to rebuilding that other teams aren't doing, to include contenders. Truth is, all we are doing is waiting...treading water (well, not really...that usually means your head isn't underwater)...and hoping beyond hope a huge percentage of our prospect turn out to be very good because we NEED it to. With so little major league talent, and out inability to utilize FA, that is our only shot...and history shows, that's an extremely long road to travel.

People keep saying we are rebuilding. What are we doing that other teams, who aren't in rebuilding mode, AREN'T doing? We're drafting...everyone drafts. We're signing international talent, so is everyone else. Aren't we just waiting and praying to the Gods that a seriously higher than normal percentage of our prospects end up above average of better? Is that actively rebuilding? We did the two trades...the Span and Revere ones...but besides that, what exactly are we doing differently from any other team including teams that retool or are right in the thick of things?

You don't want to step into the batters box with a foggy head as 90+ MPH fastballs come zooming at you. Concussions aren't the same as other physical injuries... And it's not like Hunter hasn't missed time due to injury either.

I'm going to copy and paste the carp out of this post...I won't take credit though...just so you know...fantastic post!

good decision.

So, you couldn't even give your money away at that store? :-) I bet you could go down to the dollar store and buy a few shirts and pocket the rest of the money...

I don't know what the other stuff we're ignoring is, I added stuff that we needed to not ignore, not the other way around, but if we wanna throw payroll in, Cubs payroll this year is 106...ours could be that big if we chose for it to be that big. Cubs payroll was 109M in 2012 and ours was 100M...not too far off there. Or is the point, hey they spend 24M more than us but are just as bad? Is that the point? Again, Epstein isn't the GM of the Cubs, bringing him up in comparison to Ryan makes no sense, because they aren't doing the same job.

That is true...however, there is no way to know for sure how he would have pitched in this era either...and his rookie year sure didn't make him a stud. That's the real problem when these kind of comparison even get broken out. Your point is taken and it's a good one, though.

You sure that's a fair stat comparison? Radke's first season his ERA was over 5.32 in 180+ innings. After 15 starts, his ERA was over 6.00. After 28 starts, his ERA was 5.32, Hendriks after 28 starts is 5.95. Radke was given a very long rope and people would have been calling for his head on this site if his rookie season was happening now.

First, Epstein and Ryan don't hold the same positions in their organizations. Second, yes, Epstein has been with the Cubs longer than Ryan has been back as GM....but it's important everyone knows that longer, in this case, is by less than a month...same offseason. Hardly worth mentioning that Epstein has been their 'longer'...unless your agenda is to say, hey, he's had a whole three weeks longer to turn around the club. Third, Ryan didn't even leave the organization....he's been part of it for a very long time...part of the culture, a person who helped define the Twins way and their philosophies on the type of players they target and the type of ball they play Fourth, Epstein hadn't been with the Cubs for a boatload of years, contributing to the downfall of the farm system, prior to returning...and, again, he's not the GM. Besides those things, it's a completely even comparison...

If you go back and read post 36, it might clear up what I'm saying.

The 'hindsight' on the Hunter thing isn't hindsight at all...when Hunter was pushing for a new deal prior to 2007, it should have gotten done instead of Ryan ignoring Hunter's requests for a new deal. That's the rip on the Hunter situation...he should have been signed before ever becoming a FA...before the 2007 season ever happened. The first offer made to Hunter was after the Castillo trade...the trade that ticked off Santana and Hunter...the trade that sealed off any real chance to keep either one. And the talent Ryan left the major league level when he left isn't in question, but the poor farm system he left that would need to be tapped into in the future certainly is.