TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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Would You Trade Eduardo Escobar?
TheLeviathan replied to Parker Hageman's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
Trading players does not change this. You know what makes people want to play here? More money and winning. Period. Trading Escobar has literally zero effect on what you're talking about. -
Would You Trade Eduardo Escobar?
TheLeviathan replied to Parker Hageman's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
You mean before or after they see that we went 70-92? How does keeping Escobar change that equation at all? -
Totally fair. I agree....the risks are high. Which is why I really liked the idea of pushing Flake, Corker, and Collins should be Plan A, B, and C.
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By the way, I agree with this paragraph. It wasn't that Hillary was too far left, I was suggesting those analyzing her loss on the far left are reaching for the wrong solutions. Yes, avoid milk-toast candidates for sure, but many other things I hear still sound like the same recipe to lose a half dozen states by 1% because "screw those hicks". There are areas I think the party should move harder left (health care and other POLICY matters) but there are others they need to move more central (messaging. So much with messaging).
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Yes, much of the issue with the SCOTUS lies at the feet of Dem incompetence or past tomfoolery. (Tomfoolery the Republicans later weaponize to help create this situation) Sorry. Doubling down on past mistakes to get out of the situation you're in now sounds like a bad idea. I've been to Vegas. I know this.
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True, but is that Obama's fault or a long-standing issue on the left with mid-term turnout? I would say his economic policies saved us from the brink, but even if you don't love his governance once he got elected....that's a better problem to fix than not getting elected at all right?
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I'm responding to a thread full of liberals trying to find scapegoats. When we had a right-winger in the thread the other day, I took him to task on his misstatements too. But part of the root cause of Trumpism IS the Democrats. In particular, the farther left you go the more toxic the viewpoints are on how to win. There are a host of other reasons, but since we agree on those it doesn't seem to warrant a lot of discussion. Do you want to quickly agree on right wing propaganda, gerry mandering, and other things so it makes you feel better? Then can we get to the problems on the left?
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I just think the messaging on some Dem issues is unnecessarily divisive. Of course gay marriage is about people who are gay. And police violence is an issue for black americans. But does poverty have to be talked about in racial or gender terms? Or social equity? I mean, you can. And maybe it's more accurate and makes you feel better. But does it have to be? And I think sometimes the Dems kick themselves by making issues that apply to many people into identity issues. And, when they do so, they create lines of division that need not exist. I think Obama was brilliant at avoiding that. And, if I remember correctly, many on the hard left were critical of him not being more outspoken on identity issues. Maybe those criticisms are valid, but you know what Obama also did? Kicked a bunch of ass in elections.
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Mike - what do you mean by identity politics? I get the sense we're using the same term for different things.
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I found this to be a good read. And it made me sad.....
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Would You Trade Eduardo Escobar?
TheLeviathan replied to Parker Hageman's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
Shop him and trade him for the best offer. Then tell him you're calling him on the first day of free agency to ask him back. -
Just to make this point more clearly: Wisconsin - lost by less than 1% Pennsylvania - lost by less than 1% Michigan - lostby less than 1% Need I go on? When the margins are so slim, maybe, just maybe, you should consider the idea of not writing off so much of the populace in so many key states.
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One solution is to win back rural votes, yes. Clinton failed to deliver the black vote and the rural vote continued the hard right turn. Had the Democrats not completely failed to appeal to rural voters, Hillary probably wins Wisconsin and Michigan or some other Midwest combo and we aren't having this conversation. Some Trump supporters aren't rational actors. A good deal of them just hate liberals and the way the left treats them. And here's the thing you may not want to hear but it's true - they're not wrong. Hell, Marco Rubio was screaming from the rooftops the other day imploring liberals to stop saying and doing the kind of stupid **** that drives voters into the arms of Trump. You didn't lose the 2016 election because of cheating, Republican nefariousness, or gerrymandering. You lost because of hubris. And your post, I'm sorry, continues to demonstrate that you haven't learned from that mistake.
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Just to illustrate the rural vote difference.
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It sounded sarcastic, sorry. I don't know if I have the answers either. 6 years ago I thought the Republicans were about to get screwed hard by the demographics. But I didn't anticipate them swinging so many whites (women included) and rural voters away from the Dems. So how do I recover that? Well I start (like, yesterday) talking about how Republicans are screwing you with trade wars. You get a plan out there right now for the Dem platform to protect farmers, laud their efforts to feed our country, offer small-farm subsidies, promise investment into rural communities (like technology), and offer tax breaks/credits for those farmers that pass their estate on to their children. Offer a migrant worker/immigration package that gives farmers the workers they need. I'd also implement some kind of "Small Town USA" funding project to help inject dollars into some rural communities to help keep rural life a possibility. That will trickle into the other members of the rural community outside of farmers. Just spit-balling. The demographics still favor the Dems in the long-run, but in the short run you can't just abandon them. That's how you lose.
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It's cool, everyone else is to blame. Sounds reasonable. I'm sure that will work out. Remember when all of us about 6 years ago wondered how the Republicans would ever recover from the changes in demographics and their losses during the Obama years. Well, we found it. They bet on voter indifference on the left. They galvanized the white and aging voters. They played smart politics with the election map. And they won. I guess if "Woe is the Democrats" is your conclusion - get used to getting your ass kicked. It doesn't seem like you want this Independent's opinion. Fitting.
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Perhaps your first paragraph is the problem. But yeah, go with divide the country. Seems reasonable. Let me know how it goes!
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Which they overcome by whom they talk to and how.
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As a rural person growing up I disagree with that assessment. Democrats stopped looking and talking about them. When was the last time a prominent Democrat had any blue-collar cred? Bill Clinton right? (And I'm not even sure that cred was legit, but he had it) How about the last Congressional leader? Eventually, when people never talk about you, to you, look like you, sound like you, or care about some of the same things as you, and dismiss your way of life....what else are you going to do? Sure, the Dems should run candidates of all walks of life....but that's just it, they stopped paying attention to one walk of life. Maybe you still lose that demographic overall....but you might not get as badly trounced if you tried a little harder to not put them off so badly. Maybe you pull enough rural people in the Midwest, Texas, Arizona, Pennsylvania, etc. that you stop getting beaten so badly. There are other factors, sure, but I really think your "Welp, nothing the Dems could do!" line takes them way off the hook. And takes left-wing voters off the hook for their own self-imposed wounds.
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I would bet Houston gets one of the pitchers.
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Farmers used to vote heavily Democratic. Perhaps the question is....how did you lose them? I think this "Woe is us" crap is really tiresome.
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Part of the reason we are at this stage with the Supreme Court is the Democrat's move to change the vote from 60 to 51. They did it for political expediency and McConnell told them that day they'd regret it. Well, if you decide to sit all of your senators out....you're going to regret that too. If you think you've got the last nuke and you're safe - I guarantee the Republicans find another way to one up you that makes things even worse. Win god damn elections. Get people out to vote by talking to the people that should be voting for you but aren't. Take all that righteous indignation you're so proud of (and waste so much time on twitter attacking people with) and direct that energy towards getting voters out. Stop letting the Republicans control every level of government across the country. Playing a dirty nuke to get out of a corner you backed yourself into does nothing. You'll be back in that corner again in no time unless you change how you got there in the first place.
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Not to mention the durability issues. He's an amazing pass defender at LB and we would miss his skill-set and size at the position....but LB is generally undervalued in the draft. You can replace him with a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Now, if we started using him as a pass rusher and he was good at it...that's a different story.
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Barr is gone and more easily replaced IMO.
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Well, you might not be so desperate if you fought to win more generally. Dems have failed so miserably at the state and local levels...maybe if you played to win there the score might be different. What is being discussed here is another escalation of nuclear war. No one wins that.
