TheLeviathan

I don't think it's money. I think it's a bizarre feeling that they HAVE to have a lefty in the rotation.

I'm not asking for it to be a mathematical proof, but if you're going to cite his ability to be about the same in innings 4-6 as he is 1-3, you should maybe fact check whether that is a trend worth even mentioning. Just, off the top of your head, pull up the stats of 12 good relievers that began as starters and I bet you'll find the majority struggled in their first three innings. It's the case for Perkins, Wade Davis, and many others. This isn't about stuff playing up early and then being found out for most of these guys, the truth is that a move to the bullpen is usually somewhat transformative for guys. So I'm not sure using their stats as a starter is all that reliable. Here's what we know: Milone is pretty good against both righties and lefties and last year he was electric against lefties. A guy that can do that is a pretty handy dude to have as a 7th inning guy. If he gets a velocity uptick there is no reason to believe he can't be Gorzelanny, Duke, or Brett Cecil if he moves down. He doesn't have to be a bullpen phenom, he just has to be pretty good and I think there is every reason to believe he can because, well, he's a pretty good pitcher. May has potential to be better than that and the only two arguments anybody is using to defend the move are: 1) We need him (a really awful argument, since this is freaking fixable. Even now!) and 2) He hasn't been that great....in 25 freaking starts. An argument I hope I don't have to take down because of how preposterously unfair it is to a developing young player.

The Twins only "NEED" Milone there because they chose to do nothing to alleviate that need. It's really a pretty terrible argument. Milone's fine, I hold no ill-will towards him, but he isn't the kind of guy that this team should be making a point to wedge into the rotation at the expense of their future. While his career splits versus lefties are not great, his splits last season were outstanding. Perhaps he's developed something as a pitcher to reverse that trend. It's also a bit of a false argument to say that his starting pitching splits are an accurate indication of how he'd pitch in the bullpen. In the bullpen his matchups would be hand-chosen and there is generally expected to be a velocity uptick. I mean, if we take that argument as valid - someone needs to explain Glen Perkins to me. He sucked terribly as a starter in innings 1-3, but was much better 4-6. It would seem to indicate he also was a poor convert candidate. I'd suggest the real flaw is in trying to use that data to project. So I absolutely see him as a left-handed, late inning specialist. That is a viable role for him that the Twins just haven't chosen to give him, largely (I believe) because they insist on having at least one left-handed starter. I don't think that's very good reasoning.

The point is that all this optimism people have over Hicks is for the equivalent of Jason Repko with a different name. That's who he has been. If you were truly basing this on what he's done and not his prospect hype, you'd have an incredibly weak case. Give me the guy that drives the ball that needs to work on pitch recognition over the guy that rarely hits the ball with any authority every day of the week.

Just by running himself into walls he may cut his career short. His fielding is really overrated and I love his career comps on Baseball reference - not a damn one of them was a significant player. For fun, two of his comps are Clete Thomas and Jason Repko. Yeah, that Repko.

Whew....well thank goodness OBP settles it all. Hicks had about 90 PAs where he was pretty damn good. The other 600 he was basically a bat on a shoulder that people were walking. Rosario drove the ball. Yeah, he needs to be more patient, but that wart compared to the host of warts Hicks has seems rather insignificant.

Hicks has repeatedly proven an inability to field consistently or hit righties. Rosario is going to have a much longer, much more successful career. Hicks may be lucky to have a job in 4-5 years.

All this team had to do was replace Duensing and Fien with Lowe and Milone and they'd have gotten younger and May could stay in the rotation. Really, that's all it'd take. And let's not get too caught up in May's stats. He hasn't even had 30 starts in the big leagues. I sure as hell hope people don't apply the same tough standards to Berrios or anyone else in their first 25. It's just not fair or realistic.

I think the logic that "the bullpen isn't good enough, so we have to move May" fails to recognize that the bullpen could be much better if we had, you know, signed a guy or two.

Ervin Santana in CF is only slightly less gag-inducing, that's the sad part.

People are seriously using a freaking month of Aaron Hicks to suggest he's better than Rosario? For one, Rosario was far less mistake prone as a fielder. For two, Eddie Rosario's first 400 ABs trounce Hicks. We're talking about a guy with 45 XBH in 437 PAs, it took Aaron Hicks over 700 PAs to match that. Please, don't cherry pick Rosario's one lacking stat with the one Hicks managed to keep decent (OBP) to make your argument. It complete ignores basically every other aspect of baseball in which Rosario has demonstrated much more success and a more sustainable future.

Ewww....Santana as the starting CF.

Maybe we can hope Arcia has a big camp and DH is a platoon or a 50/50 share?

The problem certainly is partially that, though. At this point our offense is banking on Buxton and Park being better than Hicks and Hunter. That's not encouraging. Moving Sano takes away a position much easier to fill with an impact LH hitter. Or an impact hitter of any kind. In the name of Plouffe/Mauer. I truly believe that's going to hurt this team until they choose a different path.

If the Twins signed Span that would help a number of fronts, but I doubt any legit CFer is coming here with Buxton in the wings.

Last year the team was 26th in the league against RHP versus 14th against LHP. I call that a place in need of improvement. Having the husk of Mauer, the enigma of Escobar, and Rosario as your only left-handed bats is definitely worrisome. It's going to be hard to improve the offense without hitting right-handed pitching better and the ceiling for that improvement with the current lineup is pretty limited. Granted, Arcia/Kepler are their own enigma, but I continue to believe this team is going to adjust things around Plouffe and Mauer until it blows up in their face.

All the best to him in retirement with his family.

Yeah, there was another that said technology has made face to face conversations happen anywhere, anytime so the need to have a sit down at a hotel is also no longer necessary.

Feels like it was years ago. I just read an article, will have to find it, that was cataloging the changes. I think it was on yahoo.

This thread is really awful to read. I think this trade was and is fine on value, how these two players handle full time roles is what will determine this and there is PLENTY of evidence the guy we dealt can't handle that. Ryan has plenty of flaws but for gods sake some of you are ever satisfied short of a 300m deal. If this trade and Park aren't significant than neither would have a savvy signing of Lowe or another reliever. The bar for some of you is just ridiculous. And this is from someone very upset we didn't sign Lowe and another good reliever the last week, but c'mon.

Yes there were some big moves, but mostly it was piddly stuff. The trading was down from where it used to be. We needed to sign a reliever, I agree, but let's not make it out to be something like the Twins avoiding a feeding frenzy. That wasn't the case.

Would've been nice to do more but let's also be honest - the Winter Meetings ain't what they used to be. Lots of teams did nothing or very little.

So you think they're going to take Sano out of the outfield this year if Plouffe is hurt? Or is it more likely Nunez plays and Sano stays in the outfield. So that depth really isn't depth unless Sano has suddenly become a utility player.

It's only "depth" if you don't move your big, power hitting stud of a young player to the outfield. Plouffe isn't the problem, the problem is Mauer. Unfortunately that means Plouffe is the one that should move around, not Sano.

I'm impressed with the ability the A's have had to make that Donaldson deal only get worse! Honestly, that might end up being one of the worst trades of the decade at this rate.