Thrylos

Hernandez is the same age as Hendriks, with Hendriks having more MLB-experience (but not that great) and better MiLB numbers at all levels. Escobar is the same age Revere and 2 years older than Casilla were when they made their debuts. I still think that he belongs to AA and not AAA bat-wise and he should probably just hit RH. His splits (both MLB and MiLB as a RHB are pretty decent, but he still has to face RHPs as a RHB...)

Apparently Wimmers has suffered a "setback" Not sure whether TJ is the next step, but add another casualty to the Twins' medical staff and the 'rest and rehab' method. This situation just cannot continue...

I think that the Twins had no chance of re-signing Liriano after this season and the best that they could have done would have been to give him a qualifying offer and get a supplementary pick. On the other hand, I think that an MLB-ready (albeit end of the rotation) Lefty starter and an MLB-ready defensive whiz are probably better than most of Terry Ryan's supplementary draft picks historically. That said, the reasons I dislike this trade are: a. I think that they could have done better, if you look at what other "rental pitchers" brought (e.g. the Marlins-Tigers trade) b. I think that Liriano is a better pitcher than he had shown with the Twins' coaching and he might flourish elsewhere. Unfortunately, they traded him in the division. If they traded him to the Pirates, I would have no problem with that. Those are my 2 major objections. And I really think that it is a shame that Liriano did not do better lately with the Twins and the coaches and manager do share some of the blame for this...

Unless Ryan lied openly when he said they did not, then we know it from the horse's mouth.

Goody. I was hoping that he was a throw-in in a trade. He had several chances to do something at the MLB level and failed miserably all times. 37 games, 6 GS and 74+ IP in the majors over 3 seasons are enough. And he is 27, not a "young prospect" any more. Frankly, I'd rather see Guerra (he is back from the DL) in the majors... At least we can see something different. And if Duensing is a starter and want someone to be the long man now that Swarzak is out, they could use Perdomo. He has been starting.

I hate the trade for many reasons, but both of these guys are 23 not 27 and 30. There is still hope and one can hope. (But Ryan and the old boys' club has to go... They need new blood and new thinking ASAP.)

Interesting to say (because he is not a prospect anymore since he has been in the majors all season as he is about as much a prospect as Dozier and Revere are, but I bet Escobar would not crack the list of the top 10 Twins infield prospects (1B excluded). (in no order: Sano, Rosario, Harrison, Michael, Goodrum, Grimes, Beresford, Florimon, Jorge Polanco, Danny Santana)

Here is a quick analysis with mini profiles and scouting reports for Escobar and Hernandez. This could be better than what it looks, but still do not like it very much. Big part of it is that he was traded to the Sux.

Originally published at The Tenth Inning Stretch ---- This continues the dialy trade talk updates for the Twins and of action around the league that influences the Twins trade moves, up until the deadline. You can find all the older updates here, in reverse chronological order. Yesterday there was more action that talk, because the Twins have traded their ace Fransisco Liriano to the hated Chicago White Sox for SS Eduardo Escobar and LHP Pedro Hernandez. At first thought, The Frankie Trade has the potential to be seen as bad as The Garza Trade by Twins' fans everywhere. Furthermore trading him to the most hated by the Twins' fans team within the division means that somebody or something possessed Terry Ryan, a feeling that is accentuated by a look at Eduardo Escobar's career minor league OPS: .666. Both players are on the 40-man roster. The Twins would need to make a related move to open one more spot. Both players are heading to Rochester and are assigned to the Red Wings. This definitely has to be the work of the devil or something. On the other hand, let's see who the Twins received in this trade and see whether there is a silver lining: Pedro Hernandez Pedro Hernandez, a LHP, is a 23 year old Venezuelan, born on April 12, 1989 in Barquisimeto, who was one of the two pitchers the White Sox received by the Padres in the Carlos Quentin trade. He is listed at 5'10" 200 lbs. Hernandez was rushed (to AAA) by the Padres in 2011 and (to the majors for one start) by the White Sox this season. He has dominated AA in 2011 and was doing a fine job this year. He had 3.40 ERA, 1.185 WHIP, 9.4 K/9, 4.30 K/BB in AA San Antonio in 2011 in 8 starts and 2.75 ERA, 1.252 WHIP, 4.8 K/9 and 2.06 BB in AA Birmingham earlier this season in 12 starts. In 2 stars (3 games) in AAA Charlotte this season he was 3.71 ERA, 1.235 WHIP, 9.0 K/9 and 5.67 K/BB. His AAA numbers are better than any of any Twins' AAA pitchers (including Scott Diamond) this season. He has four pitches: Fastball, Cutter, Curve and Change. Good command of all 4 of his pitches His best pitch is his change up and it is a plus pitch and definitely an out pitch. His fastball has above average movement and the velocity is at low 90s with occasional mid-90s spurs. He has developed a cutter recently, which projects as a plus pitch once he gets a better feel for it. It sits in the mid-high 80s. His curveball is an average pitch, its a slow curve in the 70s and he is using it as a change of pace type of pitch. He has been projected as a back of the rotation starter or a bullpen piece, but does have potential. A lot of it depends on the development of his cutter and fastball. He will probably spend a while in Rochester, might get up to the majors in September and fight for a rotation spot for 2013. He is what the Twins were looking for: an MLB-ready young pitcher who can help the 2013 rotation. And he is a Lefty. http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/lacrossetribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/fa/5fa92983-2ff8-5fcc-9836-337cdaa6cf6e/500795678633f.preview-620.jpg Eduardo Escobar Eduardo Escobar is also a 23 year old Venezuelan, born on January 5, 1989 in Villa de Cura, and also is 5"10", but that is where the similarities with Hernandez end. He is generous listed at 165 lbs, is a Switch Hitting ShortStop and has incredible skills with the glove. Baseball America has listed him as the best fielding infield prospect with the White Sox the last 4 seasons. And defense and speed are his main weapons. Another player rushed through the system (in AAA last season and all season in the majors this season), his bat has not matured as fast as his glove. His career minor league line is .270/.315/.351, which is discouraging. He spent this season with the big club and he hit .207/.281/.276 in 98 plate appearances, which is Drew Butera-like at first sight. On the other hand, hitting as a RHB against LHP, he career MLB line is .333/.357/.481, which is very encouraging (but this is just 28 plate appearances) Also his MiLB career splits indicated that he is at least and average hitter as a RHB against LHPs. Maybe if he abandons switch hitting he might improve with most consistent repetitions. He is headed to Rochester to work with Tom Brunansky. All in all, he projects as a defensive replacement, utility hitter, unless he can turn the corner with the bat. He might return to the majors in September but expect him to be in a fight for a 25-man roster position in 2013 if one or both of Alexi Casilla and Jamey Carroll are not with the team. http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f721c25/turbine/chi-sox-game-day-another-opportunity-for-escob-001/600 All in all, it is hard to know how the Twins did in this trade. They received two 23 year olds for Liriano, including a MLB-ready pitcher (who could be a mid of the rotation pitcher or could be like PJ Walters) and a sleek fielding SS. Both have the potential, whether they realize it, it is to be seen.

Originally published at The Tenth Inning Stretch ---- This continues the dialy trade talk updates for the Twins and of action around the league that influences the Twins trade moves, up until the deadline. You can find all the older updates here, in reverse chronological order. Yesterday there was more action that talk, because the Twins have traded their ace Fransisco Liriano to the hated Chicago White Sox for SS Eduardo Escobar and LHP Pedro Hernandez. At first thought, The Frankie Trade has the potential to be seen as bad as The Garza Trade by Twins' fans everywhere. Furthermore trading him to the most hated by the Twins' fans team within the division means that somebody or something possessed Terry Ryan, a feeling that is accentuated by a look at Eduardo Escobar's career minor league OPS: .666. Both players are on the 40-man roster. The Twins would need to make a related move to open one more spot. Both players are heading to Rochester and are assigned to the Red Wings. This definitely has to be the work of the devil or something. On the other hand, let's see who the Twins received in this trade and see whether there is a silver lining: Pedro Hernandez Pedro Hernandez, a LHP, is a 23 year old Venezuelan, born on April 12, 1989 in Barquisimeto, who was one of the two pitchers the White Sox received by the Padres in the Carlos Quentin trade. He is listed at 5'10" 200 lbs. Hernandez was rushed (to AAA) by the Padres in 2011 and (to the majors for one start) by the White Sox this season. He has dominated AA in 2011 and was doing a fine job this year. He had 3.40 ERA, 1.185 WHIP, 9.4 K/9, 4.30 K/BB in AA San Antonio in 2011 in 8 starts and 2.75 ERA, 1.252 WHIP, 4.8 K/9 and 2.06 BB in AA Birmingham earlier this season in 12 starts. In 2 stars (3 games) in AAA Charlotte this season he was 3.71 ERA, 1.235 WHIP, 9.0 K/9 and 5.67 K/BB. His AAA numbers are better than any of any Twins' AAA pitchers (including Scott Diamond) this season. He has four pitches: Fastball, Cutter, Curve and Change. Good command of all 4 of his pitches His best pitch is his change up and it is a plus pitch and definitely an out pitch. His fastball has above average movement and the velocity is at low 90s with occasional mid-90s spurs. He has developed a cutter recently, which projects as a plus pitch once he gets a better feel for it. It sits in the mid-high 80s. His curveball is an average pitch, its a slow curve in the 70s and he is using it as a change of pace type of pitch. He has been projected as a back of the rotation starter or a bullpen piece, but does have potential. A lot of it depends on the development of his cutter and fastball. He will probably spend a while in Rochester, might get up to the majors in September and fight for a rotation spot for 2013. He is what the Twins were looking for: an MLB-ready young pitcher who can help the 2013 rotation. And he is a Lefty. http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/lacrossetribune.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/fa/5fa92983-2ff8-5fcc-9836-337cdaa6cf6e/500795678633f.preview-620.jpg Eduardo Escobar Eduardo Escobar is also a 23 year old Venezuelan, born on January 5, 1989 in Villa de Cura, and also is 5"10", but that is where the similarities with Hernandez end. He is generous listed at 165 lbs, is a Switch Hitting ShortStop and has incredible skills with the glove. Baseball America has listed him as the best fielding infield prospect with the White Sox the last 4 seasons. And defense and speed are his main weapons. Another player rushed through the system (in AAA last season and all season in the majors this season), his bat has not matured as fast as his glove. His career minor league line is .270/.315/.351, which is discouraging. He spent this season with the big club and he hit .207/.281/.276 in 98 plate appearances, which is Drew Butera-like at first sight. On the other hand, hitting as a RHB against LHP, he career MLB line is .333/.357/.481, which is very encouraging (but this is just 28 plate appearances) Also his MiLB career splits indicated that he is at least and average hitter as a RHB against LHPs. Maybe if he abandons switch hitting he might improve with most consistent repetitions. He is headed to Rochester to work with Tom Brunansky. All in all, he projects as a defensive replacement, utility hitter, unless he can turn the corner with the bat. He might return to the majors in September but expect him to be in a fight for a 25-man roster position in 2013 if one or both of Alexi Casilla and Jamey Carroll are not with the team. http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f721c25/turbine/chi-sox-game-day-another-opportunity-for-escob-001/600 All in all, it is hard to know how the Twins did in this trade. They received two 23 year olds for Liriano, including a MLB-ready pitcher (who could be a mid of the rotation pitcher or could be like PJ Walters) and a sleek fielding SS. Both have the potential, whether they realize it, it is to be seen.

I think Escobar's career MiLB OPS summarizes everything you need to know for this trade: .666

Good catch with the August/July thing... I corrected it. Garza plays for the Cubs (unless he got traded)

For real? Then what is all the circle-me-Bert junk?

Wasn't Pohlad Jr who gave a public vote of confidence through the TC press to Bill Smith after the 99 loss season a couple weeks before he canned him? This is indeed good news then

We knew Ryan was a magician, but now MLB trade rumors tell us that he is a necromancer as well. That man's got a lot of tricks up his sleeve it seems.

Originally posted at The Tenth Inning Stretch ----- This continues the dialy trade talk updates for the Twins and of action around the league that influences the Twins trade moves, up until the deadline. You can find all the older updates here, in reverse chronological order. Here is the Twins Trade Talk the past 24 hours or so: Ben Goessling of the Pioneer Press reports that Twins' interim General Manager, Terry Ryan, "is making and taking calls". This is the first time that it was reported that Ryan is making calls, i.e. actively shopping Twins' players. In the same piece the names of the usual suspects (Justin Morneau, Fransisco Liriano, Josh Willingham and Denard Span) are mentioned without being linked to suitors. Also mentioned is that the Twins will be looking to get "hard-throwing arms" with a "high-upside" in return. Interesting article here in the Chicago Tribune from the Cubs' perspective, but suggests that it might starting to be a buyers' market for Starting Pitchers, which does not bode well for the Minnesota Twins and Fransisco Liriano. On the other hand, Chigaco's own Matt Garza is shut down with a triceps situation, which might take one pitcher off the market at the deadline. Phil Mackey connects the Atlanta Braves, who were shun by Ryan Dempster, with Fransisco Liriano. Over at the ESPN rumor central, they have Liriano linked to: St. Louis Cardinals, Los Angeles Angels, Los Angeles Dodgers, Washington Nationals, Texas Rangers, Cincinnati Reds and Baltimore Orioles. In other words, half the league is after Liriano. Jim Bowden indicates that the Cincinnati Reds are "chasing" Denard Span, among others. Here is a name not mentioned before: Glen Perkins. John Morosi tweets that there have been "heavy interest" and that the Twins' price is "very high" Jason Start reiterates that Justin Morneau is available Any of these guys will be still be wearing Twins' uniforms for the 7:10 PM CDT game on July 31st? http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7656400424_ea03cea14f_o.jpg

Originally posted at The Tenth Inning Stretch ----- This continues the dialy trade talk updates for the Twins and of action around the league that influences the Twins trade moves, up until the deadline. You can find all the older updates here, in reverse chronological order. Here is the Twins Trade Talk the past 24 hours or so: Ben Goessling of the Pioneer Press reports that Twins' interim General Manager, Terry Ryan, "is making and taking calls". This is the first time that it was reported that Ryan is making calls, i.e. actively shopping Twins' players. In the same piece the names of the usual suspects (Justin Morneau, Fransisco Liriano, Josh Willingham and Denard Span) are mentioned without being linked to suitors. Also mentioned is that the Twins will be looking to get "hard-throwing arms" with a "high-upside" in return. Interesting article here in the Chicago Tribune from the Cubs' perspective, but suggests that it might starting to be a buyers' market for Starting Pitchers, which does not bode well for the Minnesota Twins and Fransisco Liriano. On the other hand, Chigaco's own Matt Garza is shut down with a triceps situation, which might take one pitcher off the market at the deadline. Phil Mackey connects the Atlanta Braves, who were shun by Ryan Dempster, with Fransisco Liriano. Over at the ESPN rumor central, they have Liriano linked to: St. Louis Cardinals, Los Angeles Angels, Los Angeles Dodgers, Washington Nationals, Texas Rangers, Cincinnati Reds and Baltimore Orioles. In other words, half the league is after Liriano. Jim Bowden indicates that the Cincinnati Reds are "chasing" Denard Span, among others. Here is a name not mentioned before: Glen Perkins. John Morosi tweets that there have been "heavy interest" and that the Twins' price is "very high" Jason Start reiterates that Justin Morneau is available Any of these guys will be still be wearing Twins' uniforms for the 7:10 PM CDT game on July 31st? http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8146/7656400424_ea03cea14f_o.jpg

Here is what they got back (prospect rankings in Angels' organization and overall according to BA) : SS Jean Segura #2 (#55 overall) RHP Johnny Hellweg #4 RHP Ariel Pena #9

Kinda disappointed... wanted him to go to the Sux and both to implode... oh well.

+1 From some of the comments here one would think that Danny murdered someone's children or something. Remember: He was essential to the Twins wining the title in 2010. He had a slump. Everybody does, including some of the "crowd favorites" Twins. But he is not in Gardy's inner circle so he has been thrown under the bus... And wishing a Twins' player failure by Twins' fans is totally inane. It's like rooting for the Sux. And kicking someone when he is down is not only bad karma, but it is cowardly... just sayin' But of course, these are the same people who wanted Plouffe DFA'd last season and now that he is hitting HRs everything is fine...

Lets say that from the 4 players you mentioned, only one has proven to hit MLB pitching. Benson did take some steps back this year. Arcia is more of a RF than a LF too. Not much range. Lots like Kubel (but the 2012 Kubel, if you don't know what I mean, try to see pictures of him this season. Looks like he lost 35 lbs...) I still think that Revere today is the best of these 4. In a couple years might be different story. But Revere is a major leaguer so you have to put him into the discussion....

Danny V up looks like

7 days after the fact the day after an off-day leaving the Twins short for a week (and a day.) Nothing new, but something's gotta change with this team. And I don't know if it the medical stuff or the field management staff, but someone is grossly at fault here...

He was just drafted last year. One of Few strikeout Lefties in the organization. Some of the issues should/would have been ironed as he progressed. Too fast to pull the trigger. Actually, just for fun, have a look at what Oswaldo Arcia did his first 2 seasons in the Twins organization. Something is going on here....

Agreed, and he has been kinda filling the Cuddyer role of team spokesman after Cuddyer left for greener pastures. And the Twins do not have many who has throw as hard as Perk can in the majors. And he is a home town guy. On the other hand, let's play devil's advocate and admit that this team is building up for 2014-5. At that point he will be past his prime and very likely LHPs such as Melotakis (who is PMKI in E-town and Beloit and could be NB-bound next season), Jones (who PMKI as a starter in E-town), C. Williams, J. Gonzalez or Matt Thomsaw could replace him and Duensing can step up meanwhile as the primary LH setup man. If he brings back something like a potential #2 or #3 starter for 2014-15 (which, other than Gibson, I am not sure this team has for that timeframe right now), I would be a no-brainer to trade him in my book. But a very unpopular move. And still I am not sure that the Twins' management forgot some of the issues with Perkins (he sued the team )