chopper0080

This is what has burned me out regarding the Twins and their overall approach to building a team. They are going with a youth movement while having a manager and front office who seem to be reluctant to commit to it. It isn't about rushing guys up, but it is about developing talent. Facts are that you have several SP prospects at AAA who would benefit from time at the major league level and you have a pitcher in Correia who is terrible. Bring up May, give him a taste. If he is successful, great, keep him up. If he struggles, move him back down to work on what he struggled with and bring up Darnell or Meyer and repeat. Say what you want about Hicks, we are finding out what we need to know about him. That is important when it comes to long term team building. Hicks has struggled, but pro sports are about making adjustments, and either Hicks will or he won't. At least we can then move Rosario back to OF to prepare if Hicks can't adjust. Arcia has been moved up and has done well. Dozier was given rope and has flourished. Plouffe is showing what he is. Hicks is showing what he is. The main goal to building a team through a farm system is getting answers concerning your prospects. The only way to do that is to play them, see where they struggle and see if they can adjust. Have an environment that promotes that it is ok to struggle as long as you work to adjust. Correia doesn't give us any answers other than we will not be re-signing him.

This might be a bit easier...names that SHOULD be on a decent 40 man roster and are not completely replaceable. 1-Joe Mauer 2-Kevin Correia 3-Kyle Gibson 4-BJ Hermsen 5-Trevor Mays 6-Glen Perkins 7-Michael Tonkin 8-Caleb Thielbar 9-Josmil Pinto 10-Brian Dozier 11-Eduardo Escobar 12-Danny Santana 13-Oswaldo Arcia 14-Aaron Hicks 15-Josh Willingham am I missing anyone??? Pretty much sums up the roster that has been put together...

What I find most amusing is that in the steroid era the Twins were at the bottom of power hitting and in the recent turn to the pitching era the Twins are in the bottom of strikeouts. Some things don't seem to change I guess. We are still trailing behind the rest of baseball because we choose to go an alternative direction. we couldn't beat the Yankees because we couldn't keep up with their hitting and now we can't keep up with the Tigers because we can't keep up with their pitching. Hopefully our top two prospects are really something special because they a hitters in a pitching era. If they can't hit the best pitchers in baseball then it really won't matter how good the are.

Agreed. Along with a lack of results has been a lack of improvement and development which speaks to a lack of future production.

Agreed though I am not sure it was as much because of the improvement of the manager, but having a new boss generally makes people put forth their best. As a manager you tend to get the best results when your people are uncertain of yor commitment to them. Bringing someone else in would probably only incrementally improved the management of the team, but would have brought a fresh message and kicked the complacency out of this team's butt.

It is a bit extreme, but losers stick with losers because if not, they would have a hard time looking in the mirror. Also, I know he is a nice guy, but Joe Mauer not demanding a trade or being vocal about the directon of this franchise says something to me about his leadership. How you could be a superstar player and not do something extreme to be on a competitive team is beyond me. If the Twins want to get better than they better open their pocketbooks this offseason because they have nothing else to offer free agents. Why would Tanaka want to sign here? Same goes for Lincecum or Josh Johnson?

What a joke and an insult to the fans. Removing Gardy was less about Gardy as a manager and more about holding individuals in the organization responsible for not doing their jobs well. Whether Gardy had the talent to win or not should have been irrealevant. The message that this sends across the organization is a total joke. It's either "Our GM has done a crappy job getting talent on this roster so Gardy gets a pass" OR "Gardy was good years ago and we are comfortable with him so the actual wins and losses don't matter." Neither of those messages are good for an organization. Hopefully local fans respond with the appropriate decrease in ticket purchases.

Agreed

That lineup sucks and leads to another 90 loss season.

I don't believe they need to make a "big splash" but they need to address their needs which are numerous. "Smart splashes" would be smart, but free agency is tough for a team that is not attractive for free agents. We don't bring anything to the table other than money right now which is something that most teams offer. in the end, if we want to improve we will need to upgrade our pitching. Because we have been crappy in developing our own pitching, we will have to overpay to get it from an outside source. Those are the facts. Side note. One would think that if you haven't been able to develop a quality pitcher in house over the past 6 years, you may want to change how your organization is acquiring and developing starting pitchers. Just a thought Twins.

But what you fail to acknowledge is that bad drafts and missed free agents happen to EVERY team. The best teams are the ones that go outside of their ideal model to compensate for these mistakes while losing teams use it as an excuse why they can't compete for several years. Last year the Twins had Morneau coming back from injury and Joe Mauer as a top hitter but no DH on the roster. While they have power on the way in their minor league system, wouldn't it make sense to sign a power option like Mike Napoli to mitigate the risk of Morneau and Mauer while also infusing the lineup with needed power? We saw last year what happens when you play prospect roulette. Hicks was disappointing and Arcia only showed flashes. Why not use free agency to bridge these gaps and allow Hicks to force his way onto the roster rather than keeping him struggling because we didn't have better options? Michael Bourne wasn't that costly and could have been dealt at the deadline if Hicks flourished.

On your first point, I don't see how a player like Ellsbury blocks anyone. The job of the manager is to manage players to keep them happy while also putting the best 9 players on the field. If you want to bring Sano up starting in 2014, then don't sign a free agent 3B. That is fine with me. But, don't use his potential as an excuse to put a pile of crap at the 3B position. If there is a player in free agency who can fill that void, then sign him. You can move him or trade him later if you need to. One way or the other, a move needs to be made. The same goes with Ellsbury. He is a player who can help this team over the next 4 or 5 years. Does it matter if either Ellsbury or Buxton have to play LF or RF instead of CF if they both are producing at a high level. I call that a great problem to have. Regarding FA and 5 to 7 year deals, what top free agents are signing deals that aren't like this? If this is the type of contract that top free agents get, then that is what you have to pay. I agree that you can't field a MLB roster through FA, but you have to take some calculated risks to field a competitive roster. You pay your front office to get these decisions right and if they don't, then you need to get new personnel. Signing a 30 year old to a 5 year deal won't kill your franchise unless he bombs in the first 3 years. After that, you should have prospects coming up and replacing vet players which helps balance out your salary cap. Also, if you sign a #2 SP in free agency, does it really matter if he becomes yuor #4 SP in 3 or 4 years? Roster management should be about balancing short term benefits with long term benefits. Right now, the Twins are ignoring this balance which is why they are struggling. In terms of BLackburn and Mays, are you really stating that you thought these were top signings at the time? They were marginal players with very little room for error and regression which made them poor investments. Middling FAs like this are where teams take the most risk in FA. We agree that the Twins should invest their offseason money in free agents who are young and whose best years are ahead of them. The problem is that these players are in the highest demand and are not what the FA market is flush with.

In a time where pitching is up around the rest of baseball.

The "mid market" and "wait for our prospects to come up" arguments are the same old lines that losing organizations feed their battered fans and then those fans use as excuses to why their team can't compete. I don't buy it. Teams that prioritize winning come up with ways to win. St. Louis, San Francisco, and Atlanta aren't huge markets and they find ways to field competitive teams. What I hear is a front office that sold a line to a city to leverage a new stadium and are now using the same excuses they used before to dupe their fans into believing it is ok to be competitive once or twice every 10 to 15 years. Let me give most of you an update, it is ok to field a competitive roster using multiple sources. It is ok to have too many good players at certain positions, that is called depth. Having good players at the major league who your prospects have to beat out to make the squad is a good thing. This allows prospects to come up when they are ready, not when you are desperate. 5 to 7 year deals are common for top free agents and most of those free agents are close to 30 if not above 30. While this makes it smart to not depend on free agency to build your team, ignoring it as a resource to improve your team is equally stupid. And, regarding that 7 year contract, I am pretty sure the owner can afford to eat 2 years at 13 mil if the front office is smart and can get 5 good years out of a player. Final tip, if your front office is so afraid to sign free agents because of the potential failure, then you need a new front office because yours doesn't believe it can get the job done. Come on fellow Twins fans, demand more from your franchise.

Well if that is the case, I can always follow the Twins through this site and through the box score until they get as serious about winning as I am. Opens up some time and money that is probably better served being used on my family.

This entire coaching staff;s tie is up IMO as well as Ryan's but it is due to accountability more than anything else. How can you hold players accountable when your are having a third straight terrible season?

Perkins, Morneau and Pelfrey should all go, as well as Duensing and Doumit if anybody will take them. TR is making a huge mistake if he is holding onto Perkins, the one real asset we have. And both Morneau and Pelfrey are in contract years so why not get what you can? Ugh.

Which becomes a huge issue if you don't have pitching. Pedro Floriman is a fine MLB SS if we have legitimate pitching. Where he becomes an issue is when you have terrible pitching and terrible hitting. IMO, on a competitive team, Dozier and Floriman have a place on the roster. They aren't the long term problem. The long term problem is that in the best pitching enviornment baseball has seen in years, the Twins are terrible at SP.

So bring him up when Gibson hits his innings limit or when one of the other starters gets hurt. My point is that you have already seen Hendriks in the majors, now it is time to give him possibly a last look before making a final determination. In order to do this, he needs as many innings as you can give him. Albers is starting fresh. No matter what he does at the major league level, it will still be considered a short stint and he will most likely head into 2014 as the 6th SP who will begin at AAA.

The Twins need pitching and pretty much only pitching. Why? Because we have stunk at developing our own pitching and we are too afraid to sign any top free agent pitchers. We don't need more prospect depth at infield positions, we need more pitching.

See, I really disagree with this. Hendriks has been down (done well), brought up (no good), sent down (ok), and brought up (bad). I would give him the remainder of the year to see if he has improved through the process. Then we at least know if he should even be a consideration for a #5 SP spot come 2014. It is past time for this team to start getting some answers for next year. Hendriks, Gibson, Cobello, Parmalee, Arcia, Tonkin, and Hicks all need to be getting playing time so we can see if they have progressed this year and if they can make adjustments for the remainder of the year to get even better. Right now, all we know is that Parm is nothing special as a part time hitter and Hicks/Arcia/Gibson are young. Everything else is a mystery which I expect Ryan to spin into some sort of offseason excuse why we aren't pursing top players.

I am ok with Correia as a #4 or #5, not a #1. That being said, that isn't Correia's fault. A good signing that will go overlooked because the Twins made it their top SP signing rather than a solid value move to complement a better one.

Here is my take on the matter for what it is worth. One, when free agents coming looking, they look for winning, money and market. Right now we offer none of those. Even if we did offer up money, we would most likely have to overpay for those free agents because Minnesota isn't a huge market and the Twins aren't a winning team. The best we can really hope for is that we can offer money and winning, but at this rate, we aren't offering both of those in 2014 and 2015. Two, pitching is either home grown through the minors or purchased through free agency, and free ageny only offers 28 or older players. So, if you aren't growing your own front line pitchers (like we aren't) than you have to spend on them and assume some financial risk. Three, in regards to Sanchez, I doubt he would have signed here as we offer very little to free agents right now. But, as a Major League team, you can't just depend on growing your prospects and then spending when they seem to be knocking on the door. There is no reason the Twins can't field a compeititive team while their minor league system is developing prospects. While Sanchez might not have the difference between us and the playoffs this year, he still would have made the team better which should be the end goal. Yes, you can't fill your roster with pricey free agents, but a few high priced contracts have yet to cripple an organization that is dedicated to winning. In the end, I guess I just demand more from this team than some of you do. I don't see the downside of a few calculated risks like signing a Sanchez level player even if your team isn't a World Series contender. Where I know you fail at the Major League level is by using your money to sign only the Correia's, Pelfrey's, and Doumit's of the free agent world and hoping your minor league system develops. That plan leads you to multiple 90 loss seasons.

I think if you are going to preach accountability to your players then you have to hold your managers to the same level. His recent record dictates that he should go. That being said, the Twins aren't an organization that embraces change and new faces very well. They have their guys and their ways of doing things. People who buck that seem to be sent on their way. However, baseball managers really aren't that big of a deal. They do the least of any coaches in professional sports.

In my mind Terry Ryan's grade goes hand in hand with the Twins major league production which has been poor. Sure our farm system seems stocked, but that doesn't mean these prospects will turn into major league contributors. Do we have a better farm system? Yes. Are we in a good financial situation heading into 2014? Yes. Has any of these things led to a better professional record? No, and that is what matters. You have to take into consideration that many of Ryan's best moves haven't played out yet which means you can argue to give him more time, but the production so far as been belowe average. The end grade will come with how he uses the money he will have in 2014 and if the prospects he has acquired can make it to the Pros. I also hope he uses this offseason to give Gardy a serious evaluation and not just extend him because he is the "devil we know". My grade = C-