Thegrin

If you want a lesson in bidding you should watch the Storage Wars series on A&E . People that think they only have to bid high and they will win the auction are rudely surprised. I watch this and think of all the Free Agents that the Twins had no chance of getting, even though they were willing to commit unreasonable amounts of money.

More things that could make the 2013 season a success would be: - Diamond coming back and having several successful outings before the season ends. Pitchers after surgery have new arms but they have the same brain. Diamond proved he knows how to pitch in 2012. - Pelfrey could have several more quality starts and then re-signs with the Twins. - Florimon could go on a hitting streak. - The bullpen continues to be nearly unhittable for the rest of September. - Mauer looses his concussion syndromes and returns to hit, but Gardy won't let him catch. and all the things you mentioned could come to pass as well.

If the player is a good player, and the Twins make a high bid for him, another team will always match or beat the Twins offer and the player will almost always choose another team, given that the $$ is equal or nearly equal. We can only hope that some good pitcher will want to join the Twins because of the ballpark the Twins defense and the outstanding relief pitching.

Thats funny and true. I am saving those quotes for future threads. "5 reasons the Twins won't sign a good Free Agent pitcher" by stringer bell and #5 ThePuck 1) costs too much 2) not that good 3) won't come here 4) injury prone 6) they'd require contracts that would take them into their declining years.

Another good start for Diamond. I am looking forward to his next start for the Twins.

Of course money still talks. If we are talking about a good pitcher, Other teams will always match or beat what the Twins are offering. It is a no win situation for us.

I doubt if we fans have any idea how hard the Twins tried to sign the top Free Agent pitchers. I wonder how many times the Twins called an agent for a FA and they didn't even bother to return the phone call. Often players will specify the teams they would like to be traded to and Minnesota is not one of them. It is true, that sometimes, when their favored teams don't show the expected money, agents will use the Twins to bid up the value of their FA. Either way, the Twins lose and people here scream that the Twins aren't aggressive enough. What we don't know about FA negotiations could fill a book.

Diamond and DeVries have pitched well in the playoffs. That is good news for the future Twins rotation.

Signing Gardy to a multi-year contract would make this a good year. Keep the stability. Gardy is well respected by the players and knowing that Gardy and Andy are running the club might give us an edge when it comes to signing a FA pitcher.

This may be the perception but it is not factual. Many players improve under Anderson's coaching. Recently we have seen Diamond, Deduno and Burton come from other organizations and pitch well for the Twins. The ultimate success story was Johan Santana. If Anderson was incompetent there is no way we would have the excellent bullpen we now have.Tonight they announced a crowd of 33,000 fans. Twins fans deserve a competitive team. I doubt the pitching staff will be improved through Free Agency. Good pitchers simply don't want to pitch for a losing team, and other teams will always match or outbid the Twins when they are trying to sign a good Free Agent pitcher.

Think about Rochester in the playoffs. You can follow the game >>HERE

We are uselessly torturing ourselves if we think any top line pitcher is going to sign with the Twins. It won't happen unless the Twins are a winning team. It won't happen in a free market system because a better team will ALWAYS match a Twins offer on a good pitcher. It hasn't happened and it won't happen unless some future player wants to play here for sentimental reasons and gives the Twins a home town discount. I am sorry this is so, but it is easier to accept it. To get a top line pitcher we will have to get lucky or lose one of our precious prospects in a trade.

Think about Rochester in the playoffs HERE

This is one of the things I enjoy about Twins Daily. We get to 2nd guess the front office while studying the stats of our players. All 3 could be important parts of the Twins future. Only Escobar has excelled in AAA. I would like to see him brought back and replace Bernier. I'd like to see Parmalee get significant ABs this September. What I'd like and what the Twins will do are 2 different things, however. Hicks has failed and I think the Twins will keep him down until he can show us something more. It looks like this is the majority opinion.

Colabello is a short term answer at 1B and Parmalee a longer term answer. Let them platoon in 2014 and let Parmalee have it alone in 2015. By then, if Parmalee can't hack it, Vargas and Hicks will be ready or we can have this conversation about moving Sano to 1B.

Here are the 21 starters that either pitched for the Twins in 2013 or are in the minors with their birthdays. Although some can be dismissed out of hand but they are all possibilities. Correia - 8/24/1980 33 Blackburn - 02/24/1982 31 Duensing - 2/22/1983 30 Deduno - 7/2/1983 30 Kyle Davies - 09/09/1983 30 Pelfrey - 1/14/1984 29 DeVries - 2/12/1985 29 Walters - 03/12/1985 28 Swarzak - 9/10/1985 27 Albers - 10/6/1985 27 Diamond - 7/30/1986 27 Worley - 9/25/1987 25 Gibson - 10/23/1987 25 Pressley - 12/15/1988 24 Darnell - 02/02/1989 24 Hendriks - 2/10/1989 24 Hernandez - 4/12/1989 24 Dean - 05/25/1989 24 May - 9/23/1989 23 Hermsen - 12/1/1989 23 Myers - 01/03/1990 23

Random thoughts while reading the comments on "Rotation out of whack". * The Twins improved their relief pitching, watched Perkins turn into a legitimate closer and have gotten excellent middle infield defense. Their hitting regressed due to down seasons by Willingham and Doumit and the non-development of Plouffe as well as the collective failure of their starting pitchers. *If you were Anibal Sanchez, would you have signed with the Twins ? I think not. Besides, A. Sanchez has had 17 Quality Starts while Correia has had 15 QS. (Ervin Santana has had 20 QS.) *Look at the Toronto Blue Jays. They invested big on starting pitching (Mark Buehrle -$12 M, RA Dickey - $5 M) and they have 56 Quality Starts for the year, the same as the Twins. *Pelfrey has been throwing 94+ even in the late innings. We haven't had a pitcher except Liriano who could do that. *Ryan was trying to field a team that could possibly be a .500 team and keep the interest of the fans into September. I know, that idea makes some people crazy, but that is what I believe. It didn't happen and we re working with ideas because of the results. * The only way we are going to get a quality pitcher from outside the Twins organization is with a trade. This means that one or more of our prospects needs to prove himself as a big leaguer so that he can get something good. This means goodbye to Hicks or Arcia or Plouffe or Pinto or Hermann or Dozier after a successful 2014 season.

I don't think it is so much about money in 2014. The FA pitchers are horrible, for the most part. The Twins are going to have to work with what they have.

I don't want to play anybody that isn't part of our present or future. Signing players that are past their prime is not the way to go.

We need to "find" starters from what we have. Last night Hernandez gave us a complete game. Diamond has been good in Rochester. Lets see what he does in the playoffs. Gibson will be a year older and hopefully wiser. The season isn't over yet. Lets see what Hendriks and Albers give us. Don't count on Deduno. His sore arm could end "effectively wild" career.

Perhaps they are arbitrary, but ridiculous ? Each to his own taste, says the old lady as she kissed the cow.

Yes. It is definitely possible for the Twins to be contenders in 2015 - 2016. Is it likely ? That's another subject already. For the Twins pitching to make them a contender they must: - Have a starting rotation that gives them an average of 20 Quality Starts per month. - Have a bullpen with the quality of the 2013 bullpen. - Have a quality closer and a quality setup man. For the Twins hitting to make them a contender they must: - Mauer ,if he catches less than 100 games, must maintain a .300 average and he must hit at least 20 HR with 75 RBI. - Sano must hit .250 with 20+ HR or .225 with 35+ HR and 100 RBI. - The Twins must have a .250+ batting average. - The team must have a .260+ BA with RISP. For the Twins fielding to make them a contender they must: - Have a stolen base % of .720 (currently .689 - 2nd best in AL) - They must have at least 1400 assists as a team - They need to have no more than 70 errors as a team Are these goals possible ? - Yes, if we maintain something close to our current defense. - Yes, if we can find starters that consistently keep us in games. (Correia would qualify in 2013 with 15 QS in 27 starts - so far, Deduno has 10 QS out of 18 and Albers is 3 QS in 6 trys) - Yes if we develop at least 6 major league hitters. We currently have Mauer, Willingham, Doumit, Dozier & Arcia. Yes, Willingham and Doumit are having down years, but hopefully they will not be around in 2015. This means we must develop 3 legit hitters from amongst Hicks, Presley, Buxton, Pinto, Hermann, Parmalee, Colabello, Florimon, Santana, Beresford, Plouffe and Sano. That is doable.

Presley and Masrtoianni need to play full time for the rest of the season to give them a chance to win a place for 2014. Since Hicks has not shown enough improvement in AAA, don't recall him. Arcia should play full time once he is healthy. Let Willingham sit or DH except when the Twins play against a LH starter. Let Colabello, Parmalee and Mauer rotate at 1B. Look towards a L-R platoon for 2014. Leave the catching to Hermann and Pinto. Here are the ages and birthdays of the players under discussion. Colabello - 10/24/1983 30 Thomas - 11/14/1983 30 Mastroianni - 8/26/1985 29 Ramirez - 10/25/1985 28 Plouffe - 6/15/1986 27 Hermann - 11/24/1987 26 Parmalee - 2/24/1988 26 Presley - 12/15/1988 25 Pinto - 3/31/1989 24

I can foresee a Hicks, Buxton, Rosario outfield in the Twins future.

2011 wasn't expected. 2012 we thought the starters might revive. This year has been full of question marks. I vote for 2000 with a 69 - 93 record. LeTroy Hawkins led the team with 14 Saves. Guzman had 70 more at bats than anybody else. The Soul Patrol was in the outfield. Radke, Milton & Mays all had +4 ERA's. They should have been better. No wonder contraction was considered.