jokin

I wish they would have taken the chance on Haren.

I know it's personal preference, but I like Baker over 2 comps and Villanueva by a nose over his comps. The trouble with your analogy for Feldman is I already used up your "sucks" comp on Correia, Feldman is better by a nose. Where's our comp for Jackson again? And we paid a high price to get Worley, one the Cubs didn't have to expend.

Did you mean a 7-man rotation on the way to an 11-man? That's perfect, with Burton to set-up and Perk to close! We're on our way now, Woo-Hoo!

The cost of playing has gone up, so it is ever more likely to happen. And, the risk is mitigated significantly if one of the two $10M+ guys is on a one-year deal. Wouldn't a move like that, as unlikely as it is for the Twins, be a big fan- and team-building statement move that this team is heading in a new direction? The Cubs have now spent $29.5M on 4 starters (2 multi-year contracts) and $34.1M on pitchers when you count RP Fujikama (multi-year deal) . The Twins have spent $9M on 2 starters and shed themselves of two low-cost top defensive OFers to make way for 2015. Of all the FA SPs, given the injury complications, I think I would take any of the Cubs 4 pitchers over the Twins 2 signees.

Perhaps I am. But if any club had dug themselves a bigger hole than the Twins going into 2013, it was definitely the Cubs. I agree, and applauded the fact, that TR finally addressed the situation, showed the willingness to take the short-term slings and arrows involved with blowing up some of the core and put the team on the logical and correct path to set sights on 2015. But, I was addressing this topic based on the current state of the starting staff vis a vis a club in a similar predicament and I fail to see the benefit of the time spent and money wasted on things that do little to nothing (save Worley) to address the "fact" that we've now accepted and set our sights on 2015. For the record, given the position that the Cubs and Twins are in, I endorse one-year deals on both quality and quantity. Signing a Haren-like SP to a one-year deal (very flip-worthy indeed) and Jackson to a multi-year as your 2 big signings would have been perfect, along with Pelfrey on another one year- and then the trade for Worley. That's the supposed $30M number- less 5 million- that was available for FA signings- minus Span's salary (13 + 13 +4 - 5.5 + .5 = 25M), so Ryan could actually still have come in well under $100M on the payroll and the rotation would have had a huge current upgrade with the future made more intact in the process.

That's why I left that 5th spot open. I hope that Diamond is that 5th starter and pitching as effectively as he did in his first dozen starts in 2012, and that his numbers this year are 5th best of all the SPs in 2015. But, there's still a strong chance for statistical regression and an outside chance that this season was only a mirage (again, hope I'm way wrong).

Berrios probably not til 2016. Based on Diamond's 2nd half drop-off in performance, I still have doubts about his sustainability to remain as effective for 3 more years. (Hope I'm wrong)

Cmon 70s. I know you're old enough to remember that paint job.

Lannan is 4 years younger than Correia and is flat out better than Correia (Correia had one relatively decent season- 4 YEARS AGO) and would have cost less besides. This isn't that hard.

I certainly didn't ignore the tomorrows. The original topic was the state of the starting staff for 2013. Baker, Gibson, Pelfrey, three sets of damaged goods, one with a demonstrably superior track record, Baker. Worley was acquired via a trade, so there was a significant roster cost involved. Villanueva vs.? Again, a MLB track record vs 3 crapshoot guys. I repeat, now with the additional signing of Jackson (who I pointed out one year ago could have been signed for less than what the Cubs just gave him) the Cubs have assembled a FA starting rotation for today and tomorrow. The Twins? Hoping that May and Meyer don't blow out their arms before their 2015 debuts, hopefully alongside an improved and healthy Gibson, Worley and ???

This. Why does TR remind me of the Argentine Admiral doing that cheap paint job on the ARA General Belgrano in 1982, just before the start of the Falkland Island war? (Note to TR, the drab paint job you're putting on the 2013 roster isn't doing anything to stop the torpedo attack from the Tigers and White Sox that sinks yet another Twins season )

Storey is one recent prospect that should have been a no-brainer. More guys than just prospects pop up on the waiver wire. Vargas, for example. FWIW, Lannan has an incentive-based deal that puts him in the same price range as his projected arb number.

And right under TR's advantageously-positioned nose. Nothing to see here...move along...asleep at the wheel...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

So now we know approximately what it would have taken to make a waiver claim on Vargas last August. Throw in one of the Mariners nice set of prospect pitchers and you could have traded Willingham for Vargas and gotten a better version of the Revere trade, especially if you could have worked out an extension on Vargas as part of the deal.

Thanks for a thoughtful response. You and I actually aren't too far away in opinion on this. Let me say regarding evidence about 2013, the current roster and the reality of career regressions, injury recurrences, player trades and rookies' wall-hitting, the chances for Twins success is equivalent to....well Las Vegas says the Twins are 100/1 and only the Astros have longer odds. 1) I have posited that the Twins really, really, didn't want John Lannan. But it's arguable that he has more, or as much, to offer as Pelfrey and Correia, for less money. Notwithstanding, PR-wise, the trade would have looked better with Lannan thrown in and sent the word out that the Twins were on the move, possibly inducing other interest from players and clubs for other deals. 2) The Twins one big advantage in their position is first in line in watching that waiver wire for sabremetric bargains, market inefficiencies and other potential circumstantial opportunities. They also have the money to be creative in some of these types of deals, that they're not doing so is not speculation, the names of veterans, role guys and intriguing prospects that the Twins have not claimed is there for all to see. The farthest the Twins go in their pursuit of these opportunities has been the likes of Erik Komatsu. 3) On this, we mostly agree, although now, you're the one who's speculating that they're "saving their money for the future". Sadly, as of today, "below average team" is more optimistic than realistic. Last year's FA signings were thrifty replacements, not upgrades (in Willingham's case, there's some of that "luck" you were talking about) and not every vacant hole was even replaced. This year's signings aren't thrifty, they would make the two bag ladies down at the local Savers blush. The next big FA signings (in 2014/5?) will be the first such signings in over 20 years. And yet, I think that actually crossing that 8-figure threshold for an "outsider" FA paralyzes the FO in a state of abject fear and panic

Thanks, Seth. Amongst the vast sea of negativity, you always find at least a nugget of hope to hang out hats on.

Pelfrey had surgery on May 1, so the recovery time is a wash. Ryan must have gotten an all-systems-go from his medical staff, as otherwise this signing makes little sense. As a one-year guy who is looking for a bigger payday when healthy, the Twins, in effect, have a very precarious 4 month window to flip him in. The best way to flip him is to limit his innings and hope for a few good performances in May/June that peaks some interest. So yeah, Gibson is in a better position, but the Twins have their own set of workload calculations and risk/contract managment with him.

I believe the topic is the current state of the starting corps.

Actually, yeah, the Cubs made out better. Villanueva is 3 years younger (suggests more tradeable and durable), nearly 2 more Ks/9, WHIP of 1.27 vs. Correia's 1.41, proven AL East track record. I'll admit the evidence suggests he won't eat the innings, but to his credit, he was seeking an opportunity to get a chance to eat the innings, a perfect opportunity to sign an incentivized player to fill a glaring need with the Twins.

I think any objective observer would concede that the Cubs' signings of Villanueva, Baker and Feldman is a significantly better offseason SP upgrade over the Twins efforts.

I hope I'll get "credit" for "trying" to unravel all of the triple negatives and FO analogy-spinning going on in this discussion. A few questions: 1) Is TR not having John Lannan thrown into the Span trade evidence of absence- or- absence of evidence? 2) Is TR's continual failure to take advantage of his waiver wire position " patiently shrewd frugality"- or- putting 2013/2014 on automatic pilot while maintaining to the public that the Twins will be "competitive"? 3) Does the "actual" evidence presented, Ie, the "actual" current roster, the "actual" FA signings, gives the club license to shout a unifying rallying cry to all the fans in Twinsland? Is anyone in the FO in possession of "actual" optimism that 2013 will be an improvement on 2011/2012? ( You yourself already stated that they are merely "trying" to field a "< 100-loss team" as signatory of how hard they're trying and how shrewd they are in spending money only when it matters)

I believe that very irony was the intent I hoped to convey. It's hard to stay out in front of the parody of a baseball team that this franchise has become.

Been arguing this for about 7 years now. Mauer would end up doing fine at 3B. You can platoon Mauer with Plouffe at 3B now and finally have a decent PH bat on the bench once in a while. Give Mauer 70 games/year at catcher and you potentially prolong his hitting productivity for the life of the contract.

What would have stopped the Twins from claiming him and then flipping him to someone like the trade-happy Blue Jays? Balt, TB and Toronto all know this is the year to go for it, given that the Yankees are so vulnerable and the Red Sox in recovery mode.

Livan and Sidney raised more hopeful expectations when they were contemplated.