jokin

The topic is the Pohlad's, and their willingness to overspend on mediocrity, or not.

It's quite simply money poorly allocated. The Twins acquired a guy who put up numbers that were less than DeVries and similar to Deduno, who probably would have been signable for less $$$ come February. You could beat the bushes and sign another dozen arms in search of another Diamond in the rough for less money, or go the other way and actually open the pocketbook with the obviously available payroll dollars and sign marketable talent that might acquire you some young prospects down the road.

No Nishy mention? Caroll's 2012 tune was significantly below his mediocre career numbers, at age 38, now he makes $3.75M at age 39 with a potential player option the Twins would be stuck with at age 40. This signing makes no sense for a rebuilding team, money and experience much better spent on playing prospects at the utility position. The Hardy move most certainly isn't revisionist. The reasons for moving Hardy were thoroughly debated at the time. The FO and Gardy were concerned about his injury and Pohlad was too cheap to sign him for what he was worth and the Twins ended up with egg on its face on both ends of the deals for Hardy. Mauer's situation has also been thoroughly debated and many, including me, showed how the Twins could have done a 2011 reboot for around the same payroll as 2010 and made another run at the Central Division. That the Twins chose not to do so, and only acquire cheap replacements for two departing hitters and none of the departing/injured pitchers begs the question posed. Blackburn's signing was a headscratcher at the time and widely second-guessed at the time. Quoting WAR is merely lazy post-rationalization for what was obviously a poor decision to tie up money for a pitcher, who at best, was destined for mediocrity, but now has proven to be much worse than that. Blackie's sinker didn't sink at least half the time when he was supposedly going well, it was apparent to even casual fans that he lacked command on his limited skill-set. Capps? Seriously, your "defense" of the signing is most telling. Even uninjured, he came in as an overpayed mediocrity and the Twins extended the foolish misguided waste of money and the misery of his signing because they wouldn't admit they made a mistake in the trade for Ramos. Correia? Signing a guy who couldn't even hold the #5 spot in the Pirates rotation as a Twins SP placeholder for the next 2 years is the epitome of overpaying for mediocrity and does nothing to build for the days when the Twins return to competitiveness. So it is outrageous in achieving the goal that Ryan set for himself and the Twins in 2013. Try again, this was too easy.

With respect to your closing comment, believe me, I can sleep better at night, given your assurances. Based on the last 2 seasons, your first highlighted assertion is laughable. Blackburn, Nishioka, Capps, Carroll and Correia ring any bells? They didn't put out the money and time-frame for Baker this year and they ran off Hardy for nothing in return because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth last year. The ill-considered contract paid- and time frame given-- to Mauer has crippled their flexibility to address other areas of weakness.

Contradiction on new public monies being used within your second paragraph.

Pointless especially with those who choose to close their mind rather than engage. (You also undoubtedly are not aware that Shane is a college instructor.)

Sorry to engage in risk generalization, but that explains the Left's all-too-frequent abandonment, of late, of the rational argument, in favor of the emotional and/or ideological one, often laced with a underlying love letter to its opponents in Crypto-Fascist undertone. History's results show mixed accomplishments for the victors in emotional and ideological arguments (to be sure, the Right has plenty of guilt to share), to say the least.

You above all others on this board, know that the suppression of free speech isn't a strawman argument on university campuses.

Yes, having the absolute right to freedom of expression (short of the fire in a theater exception) is IMO, our greatest freedom, and it is why it is listed as the 1st Amendment. We all have a greater obligation to protecting the guarantee of free speech for all than wiping out the speech with which we disagree. If free speech had not been guaranteed to us 200-some odd years ago and all the accompanying liberties that were made possible by free speech, our social advancements would have been much more problematic and greatly retarded from the point we have currently reached. Acting like the Fascists we defeated 67 years ago to preserve what has been accomplished seems more than just a little hypocritical.

...Haven't been on a university campus lately....

I guess you haven't been on a university campus lately.

More public financing sought to continue the bread and circuses...while Rome burns...just the presciption.... for the one and only game in 2014 sure to draw above 25000 in attendance.

Someone else finally seeing the light? On our way to $50M for '15...

Too many on the both sides, but particularly the left, are afraid of the power in reason that directly derives from the marketplace of ideas and how it is the best way to achieve true social progress, absent the polarizing strife, bullying and mayhem stemming from the hysterical and oh-so-righteous, "opinion facists'. I am constantly amused by the people who are so blindly sure that they are "in the right" and guilt-free in the support of the suppression of free speech, when they are in fact, little better than the bigoted themselves, or for that matter, the residents of Salem, Massachusetts in 1692. "Burn the Witch!", indeed.

That's what I was thinking. And 1999, too.

Realistically, what % chance do you give for the Twins to win this deal?

But, Ryan proved he will pay above market prices for bottom of the barrel talent, just not for league average talent or above. That's not a recipe for success, but a recipe for (continuation of the current) disaster. There will probably still be at least a half a dozen Correia-level-or -above pitching talents available for signing in February who will probably sign for less than Correia. The way to rebuild and still display at least a modicum of current competitiveness is signing quality, marketable talent. This is money and risk that Ryan is apparently unwilling to expend. (ie Don't employ Mets/Cubs strategies at one extreme or Royals/Pirates strategies at the other end- Rays/Orioles-type strategies would be just about right)

And risk-averse would be a better term than cautious. This team is going nowhere without taking at least one significant chance per season- and avoiding another Blackburn-like signing would seem to be a relatively easy thing to do.... oh wait, that's right, they signed yet another Blackburn clone for 2 years- And this above the market rate, a guy who couldn't even stay in the Pirates rotation. As Kwak just stated and as I have stated previously, watch what they do, not what they say. These signings thus far indicate that they are setting themselves up for another good draft slot in 2014 and again in 2015, with a plan for a return to mediocrity in 2015 with a large contingent of the kiddie corps finally called up in the everyday rotation and lineup plus Mauer.

You need to take into account the simple fact that the risk/reward equation and the hierarchy of needs model are both subject to constant change.

OK then. Mark you down as another "In Terry We Trust" guy. You're either admirably loyal to a fault or fail to realize that even some of the staunchest supporters (even the guy that coined the phrase!) are having second thoughts and serious doubts based on TR's actions (and inactions). Feel free to check back in again on this topic, say, come June. The topic then will likely be more about the shedding of trade chips from Twins Pretenders than the acquiring of talent pieces for Twins Contenders. The March to <$50M in 2014 begins in July 2013.

As just this scenario was discussed on TD a couple weeks ago, it's obvious that Bowden checks in at this site to generate ideas and topics. Seriously, the Twins have surprised this offseason in their willingness to take on not one, but two, Boras clients. It is plausible that if the relationship has warmed to the point that the MN Twins might become Boras's MLB version of the St Paul Saints and be willing to park his "clients in transition", ala JD Drew, at Target Field for a short run--- it would make sense all around for both Lohse and Bourn to sign here. The Twins could get more proven prospects than merely a 2nd and 3rd rounder and the clubs that really want these guys won't lose a high draft pick and save some money in the process. I also doubt that lame-duck Gardy at this point in his tenuous tenure, would have any say on whether or not Lohse comes here.

Cot's has the Twins 2013 fixed payroll commitments at $64.3M for 9 players (w/o Blackburn counted - he's a non-roster player- who contributed zip in 2012 and is likely to do even less in 2013). Most of these above-minimum players received raises for 2013. Given the players I mentioned. plus Nishi's salary, all being gone, that is around $35M removed from last year's payroll number. The 16 players likely to fill out the 25 man roster will be making the minimum or a little more, which works out to less than $7M- so $71.3M is the operating number of actual rosterees to this point. No matter what payroll number was to be "expected" for 2013, the club in its haste to cut high dollar roster place holders, has taken a significant self-inflicted hit up the middle, with very little to show, in terms of competent replacements for 2013-4, for all of their machinations.

Your $15-20M number is way off. They essentially offloaded Span's contract and replaced it with Correia and so the Twins have actually only added just $4M for Pelfrey. Minus all of the other numerous castoffs and non-reuturnees, the Twins have more like close to $30M that "they haven't spent" when compared to the 2012 payroll (Pavano, Baker, Span, Marquis, Casilla, Liriano, Capps salaries total to well over $30M that no longer exist on the payroll, replaced thus far by players making around the minimum or a crap-shoot lottery ticket like Harden). If you consider equating the outright gutting of the team up the middle as a standard fleece-job, so be it.

How about Edwin Jackson? He produced Dempster numbers and got a Dempster contract and is 7 years younger. The guy was in or near the top quintile for SPs in GB%, K/9, K/BB, xFIP, K%...etc. The Twins could have locked him up last year and again this year, if they were willing to just slightly overbid the market....and still come in significantly under their own self-imposed payroll restrictions.

1) By "next year", you do mean 2014, right? 2) Kevin Correia will make $5.5M in 2014. 3) If one of the SP lotto picks hits, they would be asking for a huge raise/arbitration/Free Agency for 2014. 4) There is nearly infinitesimal likelihood that a Correia trade will derive any benefit to the Twins except salary relief. 5) The odds are nearly the same for TR to ever contemplate the signing of a top-end SP on a long-term deal.