jokin

Situations this dire usually mean they don't get the chance to even make it to 3 years of managing futility, let alone retain the entire coaching staff, as well.

RB, you started out your post with a complete exoneration of Gardy, but then went on to state areas where he does have some responsibility for improving. Gardy kept complaining game after game about poor or gaffe-tastic base-running decisions (and that doesn't include complete laziness or cluelessness by multiple instances when simply sliding into a base would have resulted in a run scored or a player being safe), failure to protect the plate with 2 strikes, throwing to the wrong base, calling out veteran players in an effort to establish some team leadership, accountability and sense of urgency and appeal to their manhood, etc. As far as your excellent metaphor goes, a wordsmith was on the radio this afternoon right after the press conference and came up with The Word that typfies best the MN Twins culture: hidebound adj. unwilling or unable to change because of tradition or convention. Combining this word with your metaphor, what with the current "tools" in place, that hide is far too bound up to get bored successfully anytime soon.

And he got out just before the boom was about to (deservedly) drop on him.

Smith was overall a very bad hire (based on the strong recommendation of Terry Ryan, I might add- and still remains Ryan's "special assistant"), but he made dramatic inroads in the international market, how can you dare minimize the incredible effort involved in signing Sano? Since you asked, here are other key acquisitions during his tenure: Kyle Gibson Eddie Rosario Santana Kepler Dozier Tonkin Tyler Jones Hicks Diamond Thielbar Herrmann Albers Achter Harrison Wimmers Darnell Landa Lo That's 7 potential starting position players and 10 (mostly) potential upside arms. Major leaguers acquired (but unsuccessfully removed from the roster for actual commensurate value) JJ Hardy RA Dickey Craig Breslow Jim Thome Carl Pavano Delmon Young

Good case made, counselor, might I add: Exhibit A: The AL Central was easily the worst division in the American League...and arguably the worst in baseball for most, if not all, of the decade of the 00s. The organization and it's unconditional backers are either less scrupulous, self-deluding, or both in failing to recognize that achieving 94 wins in the AL Central meant little in terms of how the power had shifted to the AL West, and especially the AL East as the decade wore on, with significant improvements from top to botom in the East.... with only the Tigers making the necessary changes, such as hiring Leyland and adopting the necessary philosophies and commitment to remaining perenially competitive. Exhibit B: It's actually been 11 years now since the "dominating" team won a playoff series in 2002 Exhibit C: It's officially 291 losses in the last 3 seasons-- which averages out to 97 losses per year. This season's 96 loss total would have been worse if not for the addition of the Astros to the schedule for 6 games, plus a very weak NL schedule. Without those "scheduling aids", not only could the Twins have easily topped 100 losses, they likely would have had even worse pitching and batting stats (ie, their MLB-worst SP ERA of 5.26 would have easily exceeded last year's 5.40 number, thus no improvement whatsoever for all of Ryan's promise of focusing his total attention on the matter.........and their offensive strikeout total, already 3rd worst all-time, easily could have been closer to worst ever, lowest team BA since 1968 [the Year of the Pitcher], etc.). There is no evidence that has been presented from the other side that managment and ownership finally "gets it", to the contrary, they are obviously convinced that "staying the course" and accepting a yet-to-be determined number of future seasons of futility, until it somehow miraculously "clicks", is entirely acceptable.

Mike Max reported it as a rumor on the 10PM sports-cast. Gardy will be up shortly on Sports Sunday to elaborate on that rumor.

FWIW- The mood around Twinsland isn't going to get any better any time soon. Watching the local sports here this evening, Gardy is appearing on SportsSunday, apparently with a contract extension in his back pocket.....that is sure to get the phones ringing for season ticket renewals come tomorrow. Also, if anyone has access to The Sports Show this evening......Reusse went off on one of his classic, out of control rants......without naming (managerial) names, lambasting both the FO and the Field Manager on treating the players so softly and demanding so little from them and in summation, having a complete lack of any sense of urgency, need for radical change or evident awareness of the level of ineptitude demonstrated by the personnel on this year's club.

I wonder if you could give everyone an advance heads-up....is the above-bolded yet another "obvious bit of sarcasm"?.....because I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything but that....or....really bad rationalization.

Well stated. People are betting big on the assumption hype that all of these prospects are going to magically sprinkle parade-inducing pixie dust when they all arrive in 2015......when in fact, a 50% return in all of our top prospects becoming impact players would be considered unusually high. And that number of producing prospects, in and of itself, simply won't be nearly enough to dig this team out of the whole it's dug for itself, despite what the optimists are wishcasting on Twins Daily.

The handling of Hunter/Santana were not causal, merely symptoms of the actual disease within the organization, a disease of willingly misguided myopia and mendacious miserliness, that directly led Terry Ryan to abandon his post in his first go round at the helm. Needless to say, despite the "cure" that Target Field was claimed to be by ownership, the disease still runs rampant throughout the organization.

In turn, you failed to address chopper's entire post. Look, I know the gulf is wide between the true believers and the true skeptics. But come on here, St Louis, Atlanta and San Fran have all had FAs walk without the clubs "paying" for the mistake ad infinitum-those losses didn't "hurt a team like the Twins", even though all 3 markets and revenue situations strongly resemble "a team like the Twins". And they all are able to talk about legitimate potential prospects coming up every year, not just once this decade, and inordinately delayed in their call-ups, as Sano and Buxton will be, until the "situation is optimal for them to compete." I don't think chopper copped out in any way, but instead stated the truth like it really is.

"Terry Ryan 'Last' Appearance on Inside Twins" I must admit, I had my hopes up that upon perusing the title of this thread......that the headline contained an entirely different meaning than what the content actually revealed. So now after reading and hearing the interview, I'm even more deptressed.

Soooo. would the right time or place be just after season ticket renewal season? And obfuscating on the obvious until then.....would be just fine for you....even though you don't agree with him? Cognitive Dissonance 101.

Whatever format or style you choose, you work is invaluable, and greatly appreciated.

Guess Who songs should be referenced only when Albers pitches, thankyou for keeping the Canadian references to the barest of minimums.

Sorry for stepping on your "astronomical" analogy, Shane. I posted before reading the entire thread.

Seriously, your bolded comments above need a /sarc tag qualifier, if you wish to continue to persist in your train of thought. Check the respective upper atmospheric ERAs of Pelf and Gibson and then check Correia's career stats and his wild fluctuations year over year from bad to good and back to bad again. This trio should not be any team's solid core, even if 100% healthy. And as much as I personally like Pelfrey who seems like a stand-up guy, on what planet would he ever be considered a #3? Unfortunatley, like you, TR probably considers them as such, and will "build around them" with Duensing, DeVries, Deduno, Swarzak, Albers, Hernandez, yadda, yadda, yuck.

Yes, tis true, but.....3 years of 90+ losses is about the limit for any non-expansion team manager except if you are in charge of the MN Twins, so Andy being automatically considered a goner is a problematic proposition at best, Gardy and Andy seem joined at the hip.

I just read an article that quoted Rob Antony saying that season ticket sales dropped 20% in 2013 year over year from 2012, after a similar drop in 2012 versus 2011. I tend to think that thiis trend is a major concern and part of the reason why the payroll has and will continue to shrink. 17th in total tickets sold, with all other trends clearly headed downwards? I can't imagine how it wouldn't be a major concern. Sano and Buxton aren't going to save this franchise in the long run without major, sweeping changes in philosophy and management.

Glunn, it's generally bad strategy to double down on a losing hand. (Didn't you take the "Over" on 68 wins back in April?)

I have a vastly different read on the situation in Cleveland than what you've come up with here. Management at Cleveland has inextricably linked itself with Terry Francona. If he goes, they go, if they go, he goes. It's much akin to Hernando Cortez burning all of his ships en route to conquering the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan. And the Dolans are like the Spanish King, not much to say in the matter except signing off on it, they made the conscious decision of being one step removed and isolated from the decision-making and empire-building. They're all....all in, dedicated to one grand purpose. Personally I like and appreciate the sentiment and commitment, and the players have bought in, big time, too.

The topic is the dreadful state of the Twins. There is blame to share all around for this ongoing 3- and soon-to-be 4-year disaster. And there are consequences for this incredible ineptitude, from ownership on down to the bullpen coach. The ramifications for this disaster on the future of the Twins franchise are also germane to the topic. The owner has demonstrated his disinterest in the team, other than in terms of a vehicle to make a very decent high return with low-risk on his investment. Their first instinct during the 2011 debacle was to make it known that they would be aggressively shedding payroll and dismantling a team that had had the 4th best record in baseball and record-setting attendance just one year before. No one said the Twins are on "the chopping block", they've used that tactic once before, been there, done that. But there is a very real possibility that the Twins could be sold; from the beginning of their ownership tenure, it has been documented that the junior Pohlad's would rather be involved in almost anything other than baseball. Their disinterest has resulted in a sclerotic and insular organization, that essentially runs dangerously on a set of outmoded auto-pilot rules thought-up in a manual written 20 years ago. Miami, Tampa and Oakland are the beneficiaries of revenue-sharing, different animals from the Twins altogether, just because those issues need addressing, it is irrelevant to what the Pohlad's might opt to do with their franchise. I'm guessing that Pohlad has learned to not appreciate being, literally, on the other side of the coin, in having to write checks to support the have-nots, instead of being the past beneficiary of those subsidies. It really isn't that hard to envision a sale of the team if the number-crunchers say it's the most logical course of action. And with their close ally, Commisioner Selig, retiring in 2015, the Pohlad's might decide their best deal could be had with Selig still in charge. A succesor out-of-town ownership group is a problematic proposition, to say the least.

Like everyone, I 'm encouraged by what Pinto's done thus far, but it's very premature to seriously be contemplating ensconsing him behind the plate full-time next year. Just last night it was obvious for all to see that Albers and Pinto not only weren't on the same page, they were barely on the same planet in terms of pitch-by-pitch game-planning....and this wasn't the first time we'd seen this. As far as his bat, despite his heroics last night, his overall gaudy numbers are rapidly falling back to earth>>>>ie, his slash over the last 14 days: .244/.292/.444. It remains to be seen if he's a Parmelee/Lou Ford September mirage or the real thing. From what I've seen and read, he's a great kid who wants to learn and is willing to put in the work. At the plate, he uses all fields like an advanced major leaguer and the ball jumps off his bat, but to categorically say that in the Pinto/Mauer "What If?" equation that it's only a slight downgrade by going with Pinto is still very premature. Were you referring to Mauer or Pinto in your last sentence? Mauer defies convention, he's clearly better hitting when he catches. In 2013 he had a .330 BA and .901 OPS while catching////.286 BA .810 OPS @ 1st base////.319 BA .854 OPS @ DH. These numbers are similarly indicative of his career stats: .329 BA .889 OPS @ C////.324 BA .831 OPS @ 1st////.308 BA .828 OPS @ DH. If you meant Pinto, his 2013 minor league split between C and DH were virtually identical.

Let's see how it plays out. We have an owner who is far more passionate about winning and hoisting trophies and champagne bottles at the Cannes Film Festival than doing the same after a World Series championship. The owner's close friend, the Commissioner of Baseball, has announced his retirement in January, 2015. The timing for a sale most favorable to the Pohlad's may be more opportune under Selig's watch than after. The Upper Midwest would be such an incredible market with a committed owner and forward-thinking management, a "St Louis North", if you will. I think it's reasonable not to trust that we can get that outcome with the former used car dealer as Commissioner, in conjunction with the Hollywood-producer son of the mortgage-forecloser, making that decision.

The posters on Twins Daily have proffered close to a dozen high-quality names, both of the old school variety and the young and hungry up-and-comers whose pedigree and bona fides match or exceed Gardy's. The main point being, staleness and expired shelf life are a reality, and what was once a great fit no longer appears to be the case........ for a myriad of reasons it's time to clear the air and prepare with a fresh approach for the next wave of players.