DaveW

You dismiss Salty because of his BABIP, yet state that Pinto should improve on his 2013 numbers without even mentioning his .440 BABIP Also the 12.5% of payroll is misleading as hell, especially considering the Twins will have a lot of players over the next few years who are impact players and will be making next to nothing: Sano, Buxton, Meyer, Rosario, Arcia, Hicks, Gibson, May, and even Potential DH/maybe C Pinto. Per the same site you sourced: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/10/15/4818740/how-much-does-a-win-really-cost A win costs 7 million, even if you dont go by that method, it was widely assumed a win is worth 5 million, which means in order for Salty to be worth it he would need to average 2 WAR a year, which I personally feel he is more than capable of doing as he has been trending in a positive direction each of his last 3 years. If you go by 7 mil, he needs to produce about 1.6 WAR year. Again Steamer has him as a 2.9 WAR player, which makes him a very nice signing for the price.

It could be a leverage play...

Who cares what Gleeman thinks of this forum? He is a solid writer, but isn't the end all be all when it comes to taste or whatever, he isn't a fan of open discussion which is the exact opposite of what this forum is (and what ByTO was prior) also fwiw for someone who dislikes it so much, he apparently visits the site quite a bit and does searches for his name.(a little birdie mentioned this) so I would take any criticism towards this forum from him with a grain of salt. Also leave the lee Harvey Oswald quote out of this!

My step kid is a real pain in the ass, I'd let him do it.

Again. That all assumes the Twins are comfortable with Pinto being the main guy behind the plate defensively. The SSS int he majors indicates he had issues, and even more telling was the fact the Twins had him DH over half the time in AA.

I never said he will put up a .800 OPS every year, however it is a good bet he will at least put up a .740 OPS (I think somewhere around .750-.760 next year personally) And Pinto becomes the perfect catching platoon partner for him.

[h=3]Free Agent Catchers, 2011-2013[/h] [TABLE=class: sortable, width: 60%] [TR=bgcolor: #50ae26] [TH=align: left]Player [/TH] [TH=align: center]PA[/TH] [TH=align: center]WAR[/TH] [TH=align: center]Framing RAA[/TH] [TH=align: center]WAR* [/TH] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Brian McCann[/TD] [TD=align: center]1416[/TD] [TD=align: center]8.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]64.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]14.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Jarrod Saltalamacchia[/TD] [TD=align: center]1304[/TD] [TD=align: center]7.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]18.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]8.8 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Mike Napoli[/TD] [TD=align: center]1427[/TD] [TD=align: center]11.4[/TD] [TD=align: center]-27.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]8.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Jose Molina[/TD] [TD=align: center]778[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]54.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]7.4[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]A.J. Pierzynski[/TD] [TD=align: center]1549[/TD] [TD=align: center]6.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]-7.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]5.3[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Kelly Shoppach[/TD] [TD=align: center]625[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]-9.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Chris Snyder[/TD] [TD=align: center]401[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]14.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.3[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Dioner Navarro[/TD] [TD=align: center]541[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]-6.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Hector Gimenez[/TD] [TD=align: center]183[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.9[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Jesus Flores[/TD] [TD=align: center]387[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]John Buck[/TD] [TD=align: center]1359[/TD] [TD=align: center]3.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]-38.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Yorvit Torrealba[/TD] [TD=align: center]833[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.7[/TD] [TD=align: center]-7.8[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Kurt Suzuki[/TD] [TD=align: center]1273[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]-23.9[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Humberto Quintero[/TD] [TD=align: center]556[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]-13.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Wil Nieves[/TD] [TD=align: center]349[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]2.3[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.3[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Ramon Hernandez[/TD] [TD=align: center]579[/TD] [TD=align: center]1.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]-19.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.5[/TD] [/TR] [TD=align: left]Henry Blanco[/TD] [TD=align: center]329[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.6[/TD] [TD=align: center]-11.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.5[/TD] [TD=align: left]Taylor Teagarden[/TD] [TD=align: center]162[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.5[/TD] [TD=align: center]-2.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.7[/TD] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Ronny Paulino[/TD] [TD=align: center]312[/TD] [TD=align: center]-0.2[/TD] [TD=align: center]-15.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]-1.7[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #FFFFFF] [TD=align: left]Miguel Olivo[/TD] [TD=align: center]910[/TD] [TD=align: center]0.0[/TD] [TD=align: center]-22.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]-2.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR=bgcolor: #C7D9EC] [TD=align: left]Koyie Hill[/TD] [TD=align: center]253[/TD] [TD=align: center]-1.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]-20.1[/TD] [TD=align: center]-3.1[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

I'd say its pretty likely he isn't going to put up a .960 OPS in 2014.

Doumit. Is. Not. A. Legit. Starting. Catcher. This. Comparison. Is. Therefore. Irrelevant.

Last three years OPS+ 104 Keep throwing out single stats like strikeouts, or his World Series numbers etc but at the end of the day, 104 ops+ is what Is most telling

That is bollocks and a weak argument "well it gets windy sometimes" In reality. Fenway only had 11 more HR's last year than Target Field and only 17 more in 2012, and that can prob be explained by the fact Boston actually had guys that could hit HR's on their team.

Do you have some information that none of the rest of us have?

Here are Salty's HR's last year

I think the Twins know what they have in Pinto defensively, there is a reason why he DH'ed half of the time in AA. As kab also showed, your notions about Salty being a Fenway only hitter was incorrect. AJ wouldn't be the worst signing, but he isn't a solution past next year, and he could fall off at any moment as 38 is a tough age for any player, much less a C

........

Passed balls are a judgement call, and basically are as pointless as errors. Should we dive into his RBI totals next?

They benched him in the playoffs because he made that bone headed throw down to third. And for the last time, I don't care what he did in Texas, he like hundreds of players before him struggled when he was younger, then improved as the years went by. In his last 3 years he has a .763 OPS, which not only is above average overall, its down right very good for a catcher. He also doesn't "suck" behind the dish, if the only thing you are using is fielding percentage (a terrible stat) and caught stealing (a stat that is very dependent on pitchers, which by the way he was only 4% lower than the league average last year) to convince me otherwise, it isn't going to work. As per Fangraphs: in 2013 Saltys Defensive Value was 7.3 (higher than both AJ and Mauer) Doumit's was negative 12.9 In 2012 his D value was 5.5 (12th best in the league) Doumit's was negative 7.9 In 2011 his D value was 4.7 (11th best in the league) What does this all tell us? Salty is an above average hitter overall the last 3 years, and for a catcher he hits well. He brings value on the basepaths (2nd most amongst all catchers), he is in the top half of catchers defensively and improving every year. He is 28 and should continue to get better

http://www.fangraphs.com Salty is a much different player than he was in Texas, also I don't really care about a small sample size in the playoffs.

The advanced stats per fangraphs has salty ahead by a huge margin.

The royals have been a terribly run franchise overall the past 25 years, isn't it possible they messed up with crow?

According to MLBTR The Royals are shopping Crow, apparently he is due a raise (1.9 mil) Worth taking a flyer on? He has pretty nice stuff. Also somewhat related, I have a buddy in KC who sees him at a bar a few times a year, apparently Crow thinks he can still start and is frustrated a bit KC never gave him a shot, is he worth kicking the tires on and putting him in the Twins rotation? If that doesn't work, he is still a nice arm and could slot in nicely for the 8th inning guy/replacement for Perkins if traded, and you could always just non tender Swarzak or Duensing to save the "money" Obviously I wouldn't give up any of the top 15 prospects for him, but maybe there is a fit?

Again with the irrelevant apples and oranges comparisons. His career ERA is over a run and a half lower then May's AA numbers, additionally May walks twice as many people. While he may never turn out to be a star, or even an average pitcher, the potential is certainly there for him to be a #3/#4(otherwise, why would Boras even waste his time with him?) I think a nice #4 would be more realistic since he isn't an innings workhorse. But at the end of the day, a comp to Trevor May (who pitches nothing like him) is pointless.

I think at most the Twins sign two legit pitchers and one legit stick. If they somehow get Garza+Santana, I frankly think they would be done (and i would be 100% fine with that) Beltran would be an amazing target, but there is about a .0001% chance he would come here.

Or if Pinto somehow proves to be an everyday catcher/stud. You can always trade Salty away sometime in 2015/2016. Or you could trade Pinto away for premium player(s) This would be a GREAT problem to have.

Question: If Rosario presses the issue, what are the odds Dozier could move back to SS? IF he could even be average defensively his bat most certainly would make up for it and make him above average overall.