twinsnorth49

I'm just looking forward to hopefully seeing some upcoming talent. If Jeff Gray and Blackie are still playing is September I'll be pretty disappointed, they've already contributed enough to the suckitude. It's hard to imagine it being worse than last years end run and the results since June indicate it won't be close to that, although this recent stretch is testing that theory.

You'll have to package him without telling the other team, who the hell would want him as part of a trade?

And that's fine. I don't think anyone here was entirely happy with the result. All I'm arguing is that Joe Mauer became a .325 hitter with a .400 OBP by playing the game a certain way. If he saw the pitch he wanted to hit, I'm positive he would have swung at it. Did he get fooled on one or more of those called strikes? It's possible. The guy certainly isn't perfect. I think people make too much of one AB. There are other times where Joe has come up big late in games and helped the team win. Sometimes, his strategy works. Sometimes, it doesn't. More often than not, it's going to be a more successful strategy than what most other hitters bring to the box. This time it didn't pan out. Against Aroldis Chapman a month or two ago, it did. That's just the game of baseball. "This time it didn't pan out". Wait a minute, what I've been reading here on this thread was that it did pan out. "Against Aroldis Champan a month or two ago, it did." A great at AB, one of the best this year, seriously, I was in awe of that battle for days afterward. And it actually involved removing the bat from his shoulder. It didn't pan out in the sense that, I assume Joe didn't get the pitch he was sitting on, unlike against Chapman. I think Joe hits the ball often enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that he generally know a good pitch to hit. It did pan out in the sense that he kept the inning alive for a player with a .913 OPS. But, flail away if you prefer. No flailing on my part. As I stated when I first posted Christensen's article last night, I am right in the middle on this one. Joe wasn't having a good night at the plate going into the last AB. He has a certain way of going about his business, his business is getting on base and for him, business is always good, even when he is in a short term slump. For how Mauer generally approaches this situation, he did his job and I get where he's coming from. But to insist that Mauer's walk=Mastroianni's walk (which immediately preceded Joe's) is not a credible assertion- there were two very hittable pitches in his AB and having your best hitter taking a chance at swinging on one of them to win the game is arguably a pretty good strategy, in this case, the obligatory strike, low-middle, on the 3-0 count was the pitch that most team's best hitters would likely not pass up with the game literally on the line. The other side in this debate argues that a walk is as good as a hit, therefore, things did pan out for Mauer, as he maintained his precious OBP average and did his job in loading the bases by which the potential lead run was now only 90 feet away. Mauer continues to maintain his lofty averages by sticking to what has always worked for him, but then things didn't pan out- for the team (not saying Mauer is selfish, it's just who he is and how he does things). To pretend that the other point of view has no merit at all and isn't worth consideration is just a little close-minded on their part. It certainly appears that Seattle had a plan about the scenario as well, and with Willingham struggling recently, having a tough righty ready to go in Wilhelmsen, and given Mauer's virtual MLB-best-average Lefty/Lefty split, they may have felt the odds were in their favor by not giving Mauer much to hit and defying the "walk is as good as a hit" thinking. I'm not saying the other point of view has no merit and I respect your assessment. I'm really just more incredulous that so many people (including Joe Christenson) are making one AB such a talking point and using that at bat to characterize Mauer. Actually what's worse is that it's not even that AB but seemingly only 1 or 2 pitches from that AB this is the source for their vitriol. I believe good hitters go about their business the same way all the time, it's what makes them good hitters. To change your approach based on the situation is the very thing that will lead most guys to be lousy hitters, in fact that "approach" is a non-approach, it's a make it up as you go along philosophy. "Clutch" hitters are nothing more than good hitters at bat at the right time.

Lol I wasn't trying to justify his problems. He's a bad pitcher.. No doubt about it. But if he's going to be on the roster.. For some apparent reason that no one knows of (free Slama).. Then you have to at least put him in better situations to pitch. His stuff is similar to Robertson in that they only throw two pitches.. It's just Robertson doesn't throw his fastball as hard but has more movement on it. He has a low 90s fastball that he can sneak by righties at times because he has a slider that dives down and away from righties. But he's a one pitch pitcher to lefties cause when he throws his slider to lefties it dives down and in which is their happy zone That's only a problem if the slider gets left up, which is his problem, because he's a lousy pitcher. Most relievers don't go with more than a couple of pitches anyway, the good ones just execute them a lot better.

Yep, and if anyone else references Nick Blackburn as some kind of comparison, punch yourself in the face for me :banghead:

I think based on his pre-injury performance we shouldn't be overly concerned about 20 at bats. He may have been rushed back because they wanted to get Dozier down and had to shift Carroll back to the MI. He's certainly built up enough equity to go into next year as the starting 3B.

Waterboarding>Jeff Gray

And that's fine. I don't think anyone here was entirely happy with the result. All I'm arguing is that Joe Mauer became a .325 hitter with a .400 OBP by playing the game a certain way. If he saw the pitch he wanted to hit, I'm positive he would have swung at it. Did he get fooled on one or more of those called strikes? It's possible. The guy certainly isn't perfect. I think people make too much of one AB. There are other times where Joe has come up big late in games and helped the team win. Sometimes, his strategy works. Sometimes, it doesn't. More often than not, it's going to be a more successful strategy than what most other hitters bring to the box. This time it didn't pan out. Against Aroldis Chapman a month or two ago, it did. That's just the game of baseball. "This time it didn't pan out". Wait a minute, what I've been reading here on this thread was that it did pan out. "Against Aroldis Champan a month or two ago, it did." A great at AB, one of the best this year, seriously, I was in awe of that battle for days afterward. And it actually involved removing the bat from his shoulder. It didn't pan out in the sense that, I assume Joe didn't get the pitch he was sitting on, unlike against Chapman. I think Joe hits the ball often enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that he generally know a good pitch to hit. It did pan out in the sense that he kept the inning alive for a player with a .913 OPS. But, flail away if you prefer.

I can't wait until I've seen the last of Nick Blackburn.

Of course, he can 't hit LHP anyway, remember?

Yeah....that simply isn't true, the majority of NASCAR fans follow other series as well, Indy Car, Sprint Car, Midgets etc. I know the "hip" thing to say is "oh Nascar fans, bunch of stupid white overweight poor rednecks" when in reality if you check out the demographics the majority have pretty stellar incomes, education, etc. Are there poor, fat, idiot drunk rednecks who goto or watch the races? Sure, but you can find them for any sport. Just go down to your local wal mart and count the number of Dallas Cowboys XXXL jerseys you see. F-1 sucks, whichever team has the most money ends up winning a race that is usually not even contested. In NASCAR the races are always close and exciting, it's not so much about the car as it is the skill of the driver and the drivers entire team, you can't say that for your F-1 crap. Also I have been to a NASCAR race and an INDY car race, along with several world of outlaws etc, and I can tell you that the atmosphere at a NASCAR race is 10x greater then any other racing series. They drive around in a circle the wrong way, nuff said.

Unfair criticism to me, Mauer was up there looking to hit, not hack. He got a breaking ball on a fastball count and didn't swing, that was his big,let your team down, coward moment according to Joe. C? I agree with Dave, impulsive, lazy writing designed to elicit some kind of manufactured passion. As Aaron pointed out, the scenarios by which a run could score when Willingham came up increased with Joe's walk.

Curt Schilling's bloody sock was about theatrics. The great baseball soldier who bravely gutted it out to carry his team to victory!! It made me barf when I had to watch it and it makes me want to barf now, it was pure Hollywood, the mainstream media pumped it up for the WS viewing audience and they ate it up. All that was missing was Johnny Cochran doing the play by play.

While I agree that pitching is most important, there's still something to be said for run prevention. I like the Marco Scutaro idea, but he's making 6 million this year, so he might be a little too expensive. Agreed but decent pitching on this team will translate into more wins than what Doziers defense would cost us, especially if he can half ass get on base.

IMHO we could use that SKILL more.

---This. You know what wins games? Good starting pitching. Guys like Brian Duensing, Boof Bonser and Nick Blackburn may be good enough to get you wins against Kansas City in June. But when that's who you're counting on to beat teams like the Yankees in October, sorry, not happening. All this stuff about the Yankees being in Gardenhire's head is just nonsense. I suppose the Giants won it all in 2010 because of Bruce Bochy's steely nature in the playoffs, not because they had a starting rotation full of aces. I didn't see anyone on this thread say that attitude ALONE would make the difference. The REAL QUESTION is whether the Twins could win in the playoffs EVEN WITH power pitching if there isn't ALSO an attitude adjustment. A lot of us appear to believe that the Twins problems in the playoffs go beyond power pitching (or even power pitching and power hitting). I'm happy at least someone gets it. It was never suggested that an attitude adjustment alone was the remedy, but I guess it's easier for some to jump to conclusions. It's certainly the central theme of your post, one followed up on by a few others. It's that part I'm addressing.

If it has to happen I think it's wise to do it at the deadline next year, unless an offer comes along that you can't refuse but I don't see that happening. People seem to forget Morneau missed close to 2 years of baseball when evaluating his contribution, yet over the course of this year he has shown progressively that he is slowly rounding back to form. Morneau will never have another MVP year but I do believe he will steadily move closer to that point as time goes on, it's not like that level is foreign to him. By that time we'll likely be able to see whether Parmelee is a suitable replacement at 1B , given more time for Morneau to raise his stock and not have his upcoming salary be a wedge between getting more return. The end of Morneau's time in Minnesota will truly be a sad day for me.

P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G..................or none of this discussion matters, and it matters very little anyway with regard to wins.

Nobody ever accused an NFL player of knowing what he was talking about.

Any player that's showed a "spark" in the past has been shipped outta town for not falling into lines of "Twins Baseball" Voodoo talk, spark doesn't strike batters out or get hits, get real, this is pro sports, you're either good or you're not. You can jump around and scream like a jackass all you like, it doesn't make you a better player or win games.

38 yr old Jamie Carroll? How does that help the mythical 2014 Twins team you advocate? The same Alexi Casilla who has a lower BA, OBP and SLG than Dozier? Who was given the SS position out of spring training last year but couldn't hold on to it for a month and a half? Who hasnt even been able to hold onto the 2nd base job despite multiple opportunities? That Alexi Casilla? Christ, this is like comparing the bottom rung of the ladder to the second rung, pretty sad state of affairs when you're supporting one of these guys over the other. Dozier may have (marginally) higher BA, OBP and SLG than Casilla but if he is the future at one of the MI spots his line better look a whole lot better than Casilla's to make up for his defense. Dozier is only the future on this club if he is a significant upgrade at the plate than guys like Casilla and others who profile like him.

I don't know John, perhaps there were not any threads created that directly discussed the weakness of the rotation but there were a number of threads in Jan/Feb speculating on the upcoming season where more than a few members pointed to the rotation as a weak spot, particularly after signing Marquis. There was also a fair amount of talk regarding "if" Liriano and "if" Pavano and "if" Blackie could have better years then things might be alright but relying on that was walking the razor's edge. This rotation was always a question mark and pretty much everything had to going exactly according to plan for it to be successful.

Beats 3 hours of cars turning left......slightly.

100% agree, people can argue whether it makes sense to trade Hammer from a competitive standpoint in 2013, you cannot however argue the above is not true. h The big question seems to be if, if , if, the Twins magically acquire some front line pitching this winter, trading Hammer will sacrifice the benefits of that and make us less competitive at the plate. What people seem to be missing is that he is, at this stage, likely our best opportunity to acquire that much needed pitching but we need to act from a position of strength and before the window closes.

I agree. Parmalee needs to play almost every day the rest of the year (somewhere). If you play him in RF and he plays like Delmon and costs the Twins a game or two--who cares. The Twins are going to lose 90+ games anyway... We need to know if Parmalee can hit MLB pitching. Until we know that--we dont know if we can trade Justin this winter. The Twins need to be building for 2014--give Floriman, Benson, Dozier, Parmalee looks (maybe Hicks too). See who will be starting in 2014. And which vets you can trade for pitching and middle IF help. I agree he needs to play if he comes back up, and he should come back up. I don't know if I'd be ready to anoint him Morneau's successor based on some success in September, he had a huge September last year and it didn't translate this spring. I'll concede he wasn't utilized that well at the time but he still struggled against real pitching.