Riverbrian

I know where Five Guys is located in Grand Forks. In a strip mall by Kohl's near Target on the south end of town. Tasty Burger but kind of pricey so I don't go that often but I know where it is if I need Five Guys. The Twins need Five Guys... Do they know where to find Five Guys... Can they Afford Five Guys? They need Five Guys for the rotation. They need Five Guys for the 40 man with it currently sitting at 35. But... those will not be my focus. It is important for all of us to understand that the Twins will need Five Guys who will play most days by not being subject to platoon. Last Year... Buxton, Correa, Lewis, Castro and Santana were the Five Guys. Buxton, Correa and Lewis are often injured. They ranked 7th, 8th and 10th on the team in Plate Appearances. Where are these Five Guys currently located for the Twins. These Five guys should be the players who carry your team. They are the everyday Five Guys. Is Castro talented enough to be one of the five everyday guys? Is Miranda the fifth of the Five Guys? Is it Lee? Will Lee even break camp with the club out of spring training? We know that Wallner, Larnach or Julien are not eligible for one of the Five Guy spots due to severe platooning restrictions. And we know it's not the three right handed bats that they will roster to platoon with Wallner, Larnach or Julien. Those spots will go to the Margot and Farmer replacements that the Twins are obligated to sign to keep the platoon integrity intact. Can the Twins find Five Guys who can be every day leaders? Can they afford the expensive burger? If there is one thing that scares me this offseason. It's those Five Guys. 3 players that could carry you but are often injured and an over relied upon Castro and you are still one short.

The Orioles are retaining O'Hearn. Miranda has thus far been more effective against right handed pitchers and thus far has been a bad short side platoon option.

Those debates can happen with any player... especially from us in the Twinsdaily crowd. Those debates will continue on into the future with other players. Gabriel Gonzalez included in the trade indicates to me at least decent value in the eyes of Seattle and in the eyes of Minnesota because of what was paid by Seattle and what Minnesota asked for. Hindsight can justify the questioning by us in Twinsdaily land. Hindsight can even determine weather Seattle was wrong or Minnesota was wrong or maybe both were wrong in the end. In my opinion... At the time of the trade... Polanco was a player who didn't need to be platooned and we needed at least 5 of those upper end types of players who didn't need to be platooned and we had no budget to work with. Yeah... He may have been an injury risk just like Lewis, Correa and Buxton consistently are but we needed those upper end guys because this was a team trying to win today... not rebuild with more prospects. We need those 5 upper end guys... Especially if we were going to commit 6 out of 11 spots to players to serve platoon roles. Polanco may have tanked this year in Seattle and not been an upper end guy. But at the time of the trade. Seattle and Minnesota didn't know that he would tank. Minnesota then spread the Polanco money around to players who were not upper end guys. Anyway... I can see your logic of getting all prospects. I hope you can see my logic by saying that we needed an upper end guy instead.

I can see the logic in this thinking. And I can agree that in hindsight trading for all prospects would have been better than what actually happened. At the very least... by making prospects the entire return in the deal. There may have been money left over to add someone at the trade deadline and that may have provided some 2024 benefit. However... With that said... in consideration of where the Twins were in the competitive cycle. Coming off a decent playoff performance with lots of young talent taking up a decent chunk of the roster. The timing for off loading a good MLB player for future benefit would have been wrong and therefore even though it may have been better than what actually happened... it was still a bad idea.

You are spot on. At the time... it might have been difficult to see how Farmer was connected to the Polanco trade. I didn't see it at first but it didn't take long to eventually see it. After the dust settled... you could see that Farmer was indeed clearly connected. Once Farmers 2024 role was clearly defined, you can see that he was clearly connected to the Polanco trade. Once you look at his 6 million cost swimming upstream against a downstream budget... you can see that he was clearly connected to the Polanco trade. Others can debate the shallow waters of weather the trade itself was a win or loss. Gabriel Gonzalez by himself may make this trade a win for the Twins. However, in order to trade the Polonco 10 million... you had to keep the Farmer 6 million and then add the DeSclafani 4 Million and the Margot 4 million and the Santana 5.5 million (which we both can acknowledge in hindsight that Santana worked out). The team spent 19.5 million to shed 10 million. If the Twins won the trade... OK... maybe they did but Farmer, Margot and DeSclafani negated the trade win. You see it. Good luck with the folks in the shallow waters who don't.

I'll let others debate the winners and losers of the trade. To me... it was always about the following question. In the context of where the Twins were in the competitive window. Did it make sense to roster one bigger better piece or break that bigger better piece into multiple lesser pieces? If you don't understand that question. Your response will matter very little to me. Just keep debating who won the deal with others. Don't look at the question with hindsight... look at the question at the time of the trade. If you had the ability to predict Polanco's downfall due to injury or age. Good for you. That's impressive. Seattle didn't know what you knew. They gave up a lot for Polanco. The Twins won the trade based on what Seattle gave up. I will not use hindsight. AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE. It was my contention that Polanco was the best player involved in the trade. And the best player out of the players who were acquired with the money saved in the trade. Even after knowing how it turned out with hindsight... it doesn't change the question I had at the time in the current context of the Twins. Did it make sense to roster one bigger better piece or break that bigger better piece into multiple lesser pieces? If anyone wants to talk about log jams... Just don't. If anyone wants to talk about how Cleveland, Tampa and Oakland built their roster over and over again... just don't. I wasn't sure while it was happening but I was drug through the mud for just asking the question and forced to defend the other side. As of November 2024. as we get ready to build for 2025 with the full benefit of hindsight. I believe the Twins won the trade and I believe we absolutely shouldn't have made the trade, If you don't understand how I feel both ways... Go back to the bolded question.

Pay the exorbitant inflated price for a catcher who will only play 60% of the time. Regardless if they trade or sign a catcher... it will be an inflated painful price to pay. If the catcher you acquire is not expensive... he will be a catcher that no one or very few teams want. It's the bill come due for not developing your own. It's paying 10 Dollars for a dozen eggs because you don't have chickens. You don't want to roll the dice on a John Ryan Murphy type. I don't either... he will cost you an Aaron Hicks type. Do you want better than J.R. Murphy. He will cost you more.

I would too!!! The Dodgers won't... They'd laugh.

Yep... Rookie Michael Busch from Inver Grove Heights who hit 21 dingers for the Cubs in his first year. Moved to create roster space after acquiring Teoscar. Dodgers said that he didn't belong in AAA but had no room for him on the major league roster so they picked up a couple of real young players age 19 and 18 who have no roster requirements. Must be nice to have a farm system overflowing like that and have that farm system while consistently drafting late in every round.

Agreed Anything is better than paying the inflated prices for upside. Catchers are not 162 game players. Does anyone here want to give up a potential 162 game guy like Jenkins or Erod for Rushing? That's the kind of price tag. Or a Pablo Lopez for Rushing... that's the kind of price tag. Catchers typically don't hit the ball that well so even if they Barnhart their way through the catching problem they created by not creating... the offensive drop off isn't that stark when compared to other catchers playing the position across the league. If you do happen to find a catcher that can hit the ball and defend. That player still won't be a 162 game player. 120 games is typical top end for the best of the best at the position but they will cost as much as the 162 game guy. Just grab a defensive guy at low dollar and live with the offense. It's exactly what they are doing with Vazquez to the tune of 10 million bucks that we don't have.

I agree... I'd install Camargo if he's the best you got and live with it. I'd prefer that to paying the prices for someone who might play in 90 games if healthy. The problem is Camargo being the best you got. The problem is no competition for a .575 OPS.

Rushing is going to be super expensive to acquire. Painfully super expensive. Catcher's are consistent overpays to acquire. To pay what the Dodgers would require is what Ashbury calls a failure tax or stupidity tax. It's the tax you have to pay when you fail to develop your own. With catchers being consistent overpays. The Twins need to take advantage of the market instead of being victims of the market. Just take a look what the Dodgers have done in catcher development over the years. There current catching tandem Smith and Barnes were both home grown. They currently have Rushing and Cartaya close to major league ready and three or 4 in the lower minors that look promising. Two starting current starting catchers came from the Dodgers system. Keibert Ruiz with the Nationals who the Dodgers used to acquire Turner and Scherzer and Connor Wong with the Red Sox who was part of the Mookie Betts trade. Jair Camargo who is currently our #3 was also part of the Betts deal indirectly. In a similar time frame the Twins have developed 3 catchers with some value. Jeffers of course. Along with Garver and Rortvedt who were both traded so the Twins could shed the Donaldson contract which is no easy accomplishment. Since those 3... The Twins development has gone dry. Dry at a position where the market prices are high and if you can't cash in on the market prices... you must pay the market prices. Catching has been a organization failure.

I have said this for years. The Dodgers are bullet proof and they are the only organization that I would be willing to call bullet proof. If they don't make the playoffs in a given year... I'll be shocked. They are the only team that would shock me if they didn't make the playoffs in a given year. Does anyone ever wonder how a team that consistently drafts at the end of each round can build a farm that is consistently producing high quality fruits and vegetables? They grew quite a few pineapples. Jordan Alvarez came from the Dodgers, Oneil Cruz came from the Dodgers, Seager, Urias, Bellinger, Buehler, Will Smith have come from the Farm amongst quite a few others. More recently... Busch was a Dodger and a pretty nice looking prospect for the Cubs. Pepiot and Deluca brought Glasnow to town. Verdugo, Downs and Wong was enough to bring Mookie Betts to town. Ruiz and Grey brought Turner and Scherzer to town. I'm not diminishing the money they spent which the Twins will never come close to competing with... But while you are watching the money and focusing on it... you are missing what the Dodgers are doing without money... with pure simple player development. Creating players that not only help the team when they are needed but creating players that other teams want that they use to acquire players. They trade prospects all the time and always have a bus load coming every single year. Again I'm not diminishing the money spent... that kind of money is a huge advantage to the teams who can spend money. But... Please... While you are watching the money... please take note of the bad money as it falls off the back of the truck... along with all that cheap talent that they grew themselves. Development and Money is a tough combination for teams to compete with. The Dodgers are top of the league in both. Which = Bulletproof. It's why the Angels can't do it with money alone. They just can't seem to develop anyone who helps them or interests other teams in a trade. What can the Twins do that is Dodger like? DEVELOP TALENT!!!

BABIP is an interesting stat to play around with. Taking the Home Runs and strikeouts out is like taking the shoe laces out of shoes and checking out the shoe itself. After checking it out... I just put the shoe laces back in for a better shoe experience. The shoe laces are just to important for evaluation of the shoe. Because home runs really really matter and those strikeouts are the untied shoe lace that sent me into the bushes last week.

Yeah But... The Twins can't afford 6m for what Farmer produces. The Twins can afford the major league minimum for what Julien produces.

The buyout for this year was already included in the trade made last year. Spending that Dodger money. Farmer should be next with a 250K buyout on a mutual option worth 6 MIllion.

Interesting... You even got a couple of likes for this response. I don't know how this is so hard for others to see but when Buxton, Lewis and Correa get hurt and they will get hurt. This is what will be facing those right handers that comprise 75% of the league. Platoon Splits I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ vs RHP 307 688 611 79 141 30 2 9 54 11 5 56 170 .231 .304 .331 .635 202 21 11 1 6 0 6 .301 78 vs LHP 318 653 552 80 153 31 1 15 70 8 4 86 132 .277 .380 .419 .799 231 13 8 0 4 6 4 .337 124 vs RHP as RHB 307 688 611 141 30 2 9 54 0 0 56 170 .231 .304 .331 .635 202 21 11 1 6 0 6 .301 78 vs LHP as RHB 318 653 552 153 31 1 15 70 0 0 86 132 .277 .380 .419 .799 231 13 8 0 4 6 4 .337 124 vs RH Starter 281 125 664 583 69 135 28 2 9 53 11 5 62 161 .232 .315 .333 .648 194 17 11 1 5 4 7 .301 82 vs LH Starter 190 173 677 580 90 159 33 1 15 71 8 4 80 141 .274 .367 .412 .779 239 17 8 0 5 2 3 .336 118 These short siders will face more right handed pitching than left handed pitching. They will absolutely without a doubt face more right handed pitching if the roster around them has a propensity to be hurt or require maintenance days like the Twins have experienced consistently with Buxton, Lewis and Correa. Or if nobody goes in the tank like Miranda has gone in the tank and requires a trip to the minors. If Castro decides to hit .160 next year. If Brooks Lee needs more minor league seasoning. If Larnach get hurt?, Wallner gets hurt? A short sider is fine on the roster if nobody ever gets hurt on the roster or if nobody needs a maintenance day or nobody plays below expectation. This never happens. No disrespect to Refsnyder but Rob and his short side ilk will be a problem to overcome in some form or fashion because they are the next man up when a man goes down.

If they can clear a significant portion of that 10 million off the books by trading Vazquez... it sounds like a solid plan. I'm all for it. One problem though. We don't have a replacement and a decent replacement will be costly which will just put you back at the same place financially. If the replacement isn't costly it will just put you back at the same place performance wise because the reason the replacement isn't costly is because he performs like Vazquez has performed. Even if they could move Vazquez. They might be able to. The problem is that teams are not trading for Vazquez while picking up a significant portion of the 10 million until Jansen in free agency are out of reach or James McCann is out of reach at whatever he gets in the market. So... by the time they move Vazquez because other teams are out of options... the replacement options are no longer available. When Camargo who makes the minimum can't be trusted to get AB's in 2024 with .575 guy blocking him. You haven't got a replacement in house. If you haven't got a replacement in house... you gotta spend the money you saved by trading him on Danny Jansen. If they move Vazquez and just install Camargo as the replacement after being scared of Camargo in 2024. We would have every right to question the front office.

I hope you are right on this but this is one place where I'll have to see it to believe it from a team operational standpoint. I agree with you... his minor league stats don't suggest a need to platoon however Matt Wallner stats in 2022 didn't suggest a need to platoon either. Unless they change philosophy this offseason. I fully expect the Twins to roster a couple of Refsnyder type players to cover for Wallner, Larnach and Julien. Those Refsnyder types will take roster spots that could go to someone like Erod so he will certainly not break camp with the Twins (not a surprise... he probably wouldn't under any circumstance). Erod would then wait for an injury to occur to Wallner or Larnach to get his opportunity. Which will happen. At that point he would assume the role of Larnach or Wallner with the Refsnyder types attached to their role. Again... Man... I hope you are right.

Wow I Didn't see that one coming.

If they keep him... Kirilloff's baseball future comes down to this year. He has gotten chance after chance. Scouts, Coaches, Analysts believe in this guy.. you can tell because he has gotten chance after chance. Scouts, Coaches and Analysts are not always right. Although sometimes... they keep giving a guy chance after chance until he eventually makes them right. Edit: This was posted before the news of his retirement. Since the news of his retirement. I have reconsidered my position: His baseball future does not come down to this year.

I don't know the answer but I'd like to see how many of those K's were looking. Julien walks back to the dugout too many times after watching that third strike. I don't mind patience... waiting for the right pitch is sensible with talented pitchers trying to get you to swing at the wrong pitch but with two strikes on ya... you gotta at least try to get some wood on it. I hope this fixable. If it is... we just might be happy with Julien.

The rule changes has changed the game. Speed is back. I don't know how the Twins are going to do it with the constraints we assume they will have but... they gotta add speed to the roster.