Riverbrian

Depends on a lot of factors. Things like Age and Contract are determining factors. If you are talking about the 6 year free agent deal that he will sign with any of the other 29 teams because he won't sign with us. He will be 29 which is the beginning of the "Decline Phase" and the Yankees out bid the Braves with a 180 million dollar deal over 6 years. If that is what you were asking? His 4 years at maybe 50 Million tops through arbitration during his peak years is going to be WAY MORE valuable than the 6 at 180 million as he ages. If you are asking about value strictly from an on-field production standpoint. According to the tables. Buxton should be at peak performance in year 3 of the 4 years of control we now have. According to the tables... 3 of his 4 most productive years will now be under Twins control. If you are asking something else... I don't understand the question. It's about Value. Ethics are a legitimate argument but like it or not, the Twins have increased his potential value to the Twins, if Byron Buxton is able to increase his personal value by actually performing, is in his best interest to do so... even if he is mad at us.

Alright... This is going too far. They can't guarantee him a starting job to make amends. Are you asking Jake Cave to compete with the mythical what Byron Buxton should be hitting or are you asking Jake Cave to compete with what Byron Buxton actually hit? I get all the injury suggestions but I have been watching all the games and I am looking at the stats that back up what I have been seeing with my eyes. . Both Buxton and Sano were brutal enough in 2018 that neither of them should be handed a starting job in 2019. Both need to battle back and earn the responsibility and both of them should be informed of that right now... so they can get serious in the off-season about what is in front of them. If Buxton is gone in 4 years... he's gone. Right now it's all about value and he is more valuable with 4 years of control than 3 years of control.

Why would a manager reassure a player that a job will be his after reporting to spring training in September before he knows who are the players on the roster actually are?

Hoping may not get the job done. You may need a gun along with a threatening note and a plane ticket to Tampa. The Rays are 73-63 Since opening the door on the opener experiment. They have used a traditional starter maybe 40% of the time. This experiment is taking place during a season that the following players were removed from the roster. Brad Boxberger Evan Longoria Jake Odorizzi Stephen Souza Jr. Corey Dickerson Denard Span Alex Colome Brad Miller Matt Andriese Nathan Eovaldi Chris Archer Nathan Eolvaldi Adeina Hechoverria Andriese, Eovaldi and Archer were 3 of the few pitchers who were making occasional traditional starter appearances so they have been moving them down the road and increasing the need for this new approach. Currently the Rays have a Team ERA of 3.68 which is ranked 3rd in the American League. This is an extremely small sample size and more data needs to be gathered but The Rays are 73-63 with an impressive overall team ERA, in a year that they sold almost all of their talent. Small Sample Size of course. More data is needed but I think teams should be paying attention. Besides... there is still no reason to think they won't be still developing Blake Snell as a starter.

Let's say you are right (You might be) and he never gets over it. I believe it is possible that Byron gets over it but also believe it is possible that his agent remembers. Those guys are good at grabbing leverage whenever they can. It still doesn't matter because it is all about value. If he doesn't repair his value... None of this matters. He becomes a bust and spends his career in Ben Revere land. If he repairs his value and becomes the player that you (and I) believe he can be. Then there are a couple of scenarios. A. We enjoy 3 or 4 years of high quality baseball that helps win three world series titles in a row. Then he signs with the Braves or Yankees for more money than we can afford anyway. We of course offer him a QO and he turns it down and we get an extra draft choice but we got those three world series titles to soften the blow. B. We realize that relationship isn't getting fixed but since he has established himself as one of the top players in the major leagues... we trade him and get an amazing return. It's a business... it's all about value now. If he's pissed, he is here for 4 years or until the Twins say differently. It would be in his best interest to get it together.

I don't understand other humans at all. Collectively... humans are the reason that Ghost Adventures are on the Travel Channel.

This is why I'm against prospects getting rushed to the major leagues, burning service time to struggling in the name of learning.

Hosken, I am sensing that you are not happy with the decision and that's OK. However... you know that I have posted quite a bit on the subject and you disagree with me and that is also OK... But I think you fully understand that I fully understand what this means.

That's a 4 year grudge. He is either an adult dealing with a set back or immature without the ability to deal with things. Every person I have ever met, that had the capability of holding a grudge for 4 years was either: A. Someone who shuts down and refuses to communicate afterwards so the air never gets cleared. B. A person who is so emotionally messed up that they actually like the feeling of being angry. C. A person who never takes responsibility for his own actions and constantly shifts blame to others. Neither A or B or C is the type of person that you want to give a big money free agent contract. Besides... We could have granted him every one of his wishes and he would still be gone if the Yankees outbid us. Buxton needs to outplay the players competing for his job. That's the bottom line. Let him hit triples, dust himself off and point to the executive suite and say "Take that you (Insert expletive of choice)". He needs to realize right now that he is not guaranteed to be Willie Mays. He has to look at himself and take control of his future with both hands. Holding a grudge for 4 years. If he can do that. I don't want him.

Interesting comments from Lavine. Thanks for posting the article. If Buxton is pissed... Hopefully he uses it as motivation and we will find out if he is the type who holds a grudge for 4 years. I've stated multiple times that I'm Ok with him taking September off and I've stated multiple times that the Twins should not go into 2019 without a Buxton safety net. Meaning I'm Ok if he is rostered on opening day but there should be another capable OF on the roster that he (and Kepler and Rosario) need to compete with for playing time. If we end up with 4 capable OF's that is a good problem not a bad problem. We also have an option that can be used and I hope when he says "responsibility to make amends" and "invest in the relationship" and "relationship building" that doesn't mean they won't use that option if necessary. It is all up to Buxton now. He has to get better and improve. I don't want the Twins to trade him at low value. The worst case scenario is to absorb the bad play only to watch him become what he is supposed to be somewhere else. Only two outcomes are OK with me. Help him become the player he is supposed to be or swallow the loss whole. Buxton and the Twins now have 4 years.

I'm going to chalk it up to nerves again. First time seeing him pitch... I'm going to assume that his slider isn't meant to be consistently high in the zone like his was. I'm not sure we saw his best. Whatever his best may be.

I was going to type something similar but how do you grade on future results? How do we look at the organization as a whole? That leaves this year and it didn't work out. The Central was weak, the American League was weak. The Door was open. So yeah... I was going to respond the same way you did but then I thought about it.

This is incredibly harsh and somewhat correct at the same time. I was ready to counter this until I thought about it. You are kinda right.

I believe you are right. I believe the usage numbers are up compared to other teams for two reasons. 1. The Bullpen was pretty healthy. 2. He got very little use out of two bullpen positions by insisting that he saves his long man for long man situations (Magill) which kinda wasted that bullpen spot. Plus he did a fair amount of hiding, Kinley, Hughes, and a couple of the guys on the Rochester shuttle which wasted another position. This increased the pressure on the guys that he used.

I'm Bold

Full disclosure: I am on the players side... I really am. I fully believe that as the current CBA stands. It is the owners who have the greater advantage and leverage for the players is the crux of my issue. Here is why I'm pro players: Teams acquire exclusive rights to players by draft and those exclusive rights according to the CBA could last 12 years before he reaches free agency and the right to control his own fate. This will make the players peak earning power (free agency) collide with the time that he becomes less appealing as he enters a decline phase. I'm on the players side. They get the short end of the stick in my opinion. It's a bad agreement and it needs to be corrected in the bargaining session and I think it is going to get ugly if the last free agency period was a harbinger of things to come and I think it was. However... in fairness... The Players are not an Angels either. The MLBPA represents both the major league and minor league baseball players but... ONLY THE MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE. This leaves the minor league players... the ones who will eventually take their jobs with no representation. So... when the big boys get together to negotiate an agreement... they are both fully aware of service time manipulation. Nobody is pulling the wool over anyone's eyes with all the talk about needing 17 days of additional seasoning in April. The MLBPA isn't concerned about Kris Bryant and Acuna and now Eloy Jimenez because they have done no negotiating to protect them. They addressed service time manipulation with options, super two and veterans consent for the benefit of the voting players to speed the time to free agency along and prevent teams from putting players to sleep. They got together... they reached their agreement which set the rules of the game and the winners will be the ones who understand the rules and use them to their advantage. Together they created the system that rewards teams for manipulating service time. "Good Faith" has done it's job. J.T. Realmuto has two options left. The Marlins are out of it... Why wouldn't they send him down to New Orleans and get another extra year. Good Faith is the only explanation. So... even though I side with the players overall... The agreement was reached, they looked across the table at each other, probably a couple of fists got banged on the table, the lawyers read the documents deep into the night and an agreement was reached. This frees me up to become a fan. Once I'm a fan... I'm looking out for my best interest. As long as I walk this earth... I will be a Twins Fan. And if I'm waiting for bad Buxton to become Good Buxton... I want the extra year to enjoy it. I care more about me that I do about the players but I'm selfish that way. Byron Buxton... simply isn't the player you describe. I love him... I think he is absolutely exciting. I think he will be one of the best when he stops trying to hit 5 run homers to left on outside pitches... But right now... he isn't one of our best players... he was one of our worst. Performance and Health is more than enough justification for a September sit down and yes... let's gain that extra year of service time just in case he eventually becomes the player we want him to be. He can take September off or spend April in Rochester... but I'm getting that year back or the front office is officially not qualified to act on my behalf.

You are correct... If I sign a contract that provides a 100 Grand Bonus for selling 1 million crayons for the year and then forces me to do nothing but clean toilets in December when I'm sitting at 999,980 Crayons on December 1st. I have the right to call my lawyer because of a clear breach of the covenant of good faith. However... you are going to have a hard time finding a team to root for. I'm being Honest... as a fan... I want the year back and I am under no legal obligation to disguise my intentions.

You got nothing to worry about then. The Twins will claim that it is due to health and performance issues.

It does indeed. However... With position flexibility you can at least absorb the monkey wrench kind of. It doesn't have to be a major thing to overcome. Without position flexibility... it could become a major thing to overcome. You want Donaldson... OK... I like Donaldson even if he is not-flexible like I like them. Donaldson 3B, Mauer 1B, Sano 3B/1B/DH. Easy enough. Now what do you do with Austin in case he is real? He's out of options. Signing Mauer just cost you Donaldson because Austin is now the DH. With position flexibility... you can have them all. That's why I want Austin to get some OF time because... what if Mauer comes back and what if Austin is real. If Mauer is back and Austin is real... Sano plays 3B and you will not get Donaldson if Austin can't play OF. I'd love to have Mauer back... He's one of us. He may not be Paul Goldschmidt but he can help us win games in his current form. However... as we currently operate... I don't see how he doesn't end up hurting us in 2019 either: Directly: by getting hurt or playing bad OR Indirectly: By convincing the front office that we don't have room for Donaldson because Mauer is at 1B and Sano is at 3B. Or signing Donaldson anyway and costing us Austin.

Yeah probably not and that's ok. However, Just so you don't mistake my passion for the subject as being fine with it. I'm really not. The Players get screwed by the CBA in my opinion. The players association needs to do a better job representing the players so they are not in this situation in the next one. However... If I'm in a cookie baking contest with 29 other bakers. If the other 29 bakers while operating under rules are unethically using sugar. I'm not sure how my ethics are going to help me.

Exactly I'd love to have Mauer back but we can't have him back handling it like we always handle it. Like Nicksaviking said... If Mauer is the starter and he hits .220 with 1 home run into June, you have screwed up 2019 even with a 1 year contract. -They decided he was the every day 1B, they didn't sign anyone else for the role as a result. -Molitor will not bench the legend and they will have no options if they wanted to and it's 2018 all over again. -They can't trade him with 10/5 rights. -They will not cut him on a one year contract and end his career in Minnesota on a horrible note. -He can only play 1B. Like you said... If they sign Mauer as a backup 1B. They bring in a better 1B option. They have to utilize a valuable 25 man roster to spot to hold a guy who can only play 1B when they have someone better at the position and this leaves them short at backup options and it's 2018 all over again. I think Mauer can still help us win games and I would welcome him back but only under one condition. The team changes it's approach and implements position flexibility to accommodate. Escobar at 3B, SS AND 2B, Sano at 3B and 1B, Mauer at 1B, Austin OF and 1B or Kepler OF and 1B. You got the DH spot to play with and let the best performers get the lions share of playing time. If they don't do that... we can't take him back. And that would be a shame.

I have no idea how he felt about his time with the Twins. He seemed to be happy and smiling in those commercials. Maybe he liked his teammates and he skipped to work every day or maybe he resented the way Molitor over used his bullpen and it festered. I've worked with people who were happy after getting the short end of the stick and I've worked with people who got angry over a promotion or bonus. They come in all shapes and sizes and I have no idea if he was happy in Minnesota or not. I'm also not sure that the Twins will value him more because he can play multiple positions. I know that I would... but the Twins haven't been the team that values that sort of thing yet. I'm hoping they become that sort of team but so far, the organization tends to take the multiple position guy and de-value them as utility backups. Where would Escobar have started the season if Polanco didn't get suspended? He would have been a backup at multiple positions and that wasn't a starting job. The way the Twins have always done business (I'm hoping they will change)... they will value Escobar as an everyday player at an assigned position. If they sign him (and that is a big if), it will be to an assigned position such as 2B and Escobar will then be our every day 2B removing immediately all flexibility value he has. If Sano gets hurt and we need a 3B... Escobar will stay at 2B and someone else will fill in for Sano at 3B. I hope and pray that this all changes for 2019 and they see the value in flexibility and take steps to encourage and develop more of it, but I have seen no outward signs of this intention thus far. I think the Twins will value Escobar more because they know what kind of player and personality he is, and this makes him more of a known quantity than say "Logan Morrison" who had spent a career in opposing dugouts. I think almost every major league team should have interest in Escobar regardless if they believe in flexibility or not, because, he can play 2B, 3B and SS. This makes him a sensible option for any team looking to fill one of those 3 spots and that just might be everybody and this will make it hard for Minnesota to sign him. And I think there are a couple of teams, who are ahead of the curve, who will look at Escobar, see that flexibility and go hard after him as a result because he can play multiple positions including OF and then plan to play him every day at multiple positions. (The Twins are not in this couple of teams group and I wish they were).

In my opinion, Escobar will be extremely easy to sign, if the Twins offer him the best deal. If they don't offer him the best deal... He will be impossible to sign. This would be the case if the Twins traded him or didn't trade him. But... All in All... It's going to be difficult to sign him because 29 other teams may also want him. That's why the extra year of Buxton discussion is kinda important. He is going to be a free agent after 12 years of being told where to play and for how much. He's going to take this moment seriously because he has been waiting 12 years for it and he isn't going to give away leverage and he isn't going to turn down the best deal because he is holding a grudge over being traded to a contender. I can't speak for everyone... But those of us who list Escobar in our plans for next year... Are hoping... maybe even demanding that the Twins are the team that gives him the best offer.