Riverbrian

I've figured it out. He is meeting with teams in order... based on the size of contract. Working from least amount offered to largest amount offered. The Twins will be the last team he meets with. I hope nobody takes this post... or any post of mine... seriously.

Personally, I'm not going to worry about a meeting... that much... at least not yet. Maybe one is scheduled for later. Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to throw a hail mary because they are behind. Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting because they are offering less and they have some B.S. to peddle. Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to get a quick assessment on probability before determining if they need to move on to Arrieta or Cobb. I'll worry later. Although... it sure would be a lot easier if we didn't have 29 other teams to contend with on EVERYTHING!!!

Pay the Man He's earned it

So if we need 24 of them... Asking for 7 seems reasonable.

We don't seem to be too far away. As long as neither of us assume that either of us is not advocating doing it only with bullpen or ignoring the bullpen entirely. I'm a 25 man guy I want 25 men on the roster who can all contribute to victory. I'd like the Twins to top the Astros in all phases. I'm praying that we sign Darvish. I just don't believe that Money that was previous allocated to filling out a bullpen is sustainable at that budget rate anymore for any team... and absolutely not... for any team that considers themselves contenders.

Kab repeatedly asked for some sort of tangible proof of a correlation and that's why I asked him to do the same thing to support his side and that was the context for the quote you highlighted. My contention is that you will not find that proof either way because this is such a new thing. Kab has my respect... I think he's very knowledgeable but he was a little heavy handed asking for proof without proving his opinion. (Which I respect without proof because I'm sure he came by it honestly). I'm not contending that a bullpen is the single most important thing. It may come across that way because I'm strongly advocating the need for it. I liked what you put together (Gave you a like) and I appreciated your effort but limiting the discussion to the past 4 world series winners makes what is already a too small sample size even smaller by ignoring the Yankees Bullpen last year and the Indians Bullpen Last Year and the Year before that. The set of data is just too new since it seemed to start with the Royals. I come by my opinion honestly... I watched the Royals in 2014 do amazing things with a bunch of young energetic position players that were able to put up crooked numbers with a very average starting rotation still keeping it close. Then that scary bullpen would hit the stage and they overcame the average rotation and almost got the job done if it wasn't for Bumgarner and then get the job done in 2015 against the big scary Mets rotation. I watched the Indians acquire Andrew Miller in 2016 and then I watched Francona put him in the game in the 4th inning and then leave him in for the 5th and 6th before turning it over to Shaw or whoever. I watched Francona put Miller in the 7th inning the very next day when everyone would assume he was toast and I realized that Francona just created a new valuable thing and everybody needed one. It's my opinion... that if the Twins would have acquired Miller under similar circumstances. He would have been the traditional 8th inning set up guy or closer and locked into that role. Francona showed everyone a new way to do it. Put him in... regardless if the team was ahead or behind. Use him when it matters no matter what the inning was. I watched the Yankees take the bullpen to perhaps a higher level still last year. Adding Robertson and Kahnle to Chapman, Betences, Green and Warren. I believe the prices will continue to go up and I believe that results will be inconsistent or volatile because players are inconsistent and volatile when you are using 50 to 70 IP's or 100 to 200 AB's data sets. However... I am not advocating ignoring the rotation or any other position from Shortstop to the I.T. department because it can be done with a bullpen alone. BTW... I'm Ok with the Rodney Signing.... I'm just really really pro bullpen.

You keep asking us bullpen supporters to show a correlation between bullpens and winning. That's going to stop us all dead in our tracks unless someone pours through the necessary research or finds someone who knows what they are doing and pours through the necessary research and publishes it for us to regurgitate. I think it's fair to return the request back at you. Please show some correlation that a bullpen doesn't produce winners. The best bullpen argument I can make is this: Jake McGee RP 31 Rockies 3 years $27,000,000 Bryan Shaw RP 30 Rockies 3 years $27,000,000 Brandon Morrow RP 33 Dodgers 2 years $21,000,000 Tommy Hunter RP 31 Phillies 2 years $18,000,000 Pat Neshek RP 37 Signed Phillies 2 years $16,250,000 Joe Smith RP 33 Signed Astros 2 years $15,000,000 Anthony Swarzak RP 32 Mets 2 years $14,000,000 Steve Cishek RP 31 Signed Cubs 2 years $13,000,000 Luke Gregerson RP 33 Signed Cardinals 2 years $11,000,000 Brandon Kintzler RP 33 Agreed Nationals 2 years $10,000,000 Yusmeiro Petit RP 33 Signed Athletics 2 years $10,000,000 Hector Rondon RP 29 Signed Astros 2 years $8,500,000 The Rockies, Dodgers, Phillies, Astro's, Mets, Cubs, Cards, Nats and A's are disagreeing with you by the contracts they are offering. Those front offices might be going through that research that you want H2O to provide you. Then again... they might not. I totally respect your position when you state that you would spend money/resources making starting pitching a priority. I don't disagree with that. However... The KC Rotation in 2014 or 2015 wasn't lights out. The Indians rotation was decimated in 2016. The Bullpens got them there. I just don't think you can elect to spend less in the bullpen on purpose anymore. I also agree that the 9th inning is way overrated... I don't care if Rodney is in the 9th... I want additional guys who can get a big strike out in the 7th... Protect a lead in the 6th. Stop a bad 1st inning with a great 2nd and 3rd inning. I want a bullpen full of these guys. I admit I can't predict who those guys will be but I do expect the front office to try in this day and age. At least... I expect the front office to try... until someone can prove that Kansas City and Cleveland bullpens didn't overcome a weak rotation and help them immensely.

David Price Jason Heyward Chris Davis Justin Upton Jordan Zimmerman Jeff Samardzia Wei-Yin Chen Mike Leake Alex Gordon Ian Kennedy Ben Zobrist Scott Kazmir John Lackey Denard Span Yiesel Sierra Just listing another 15 from 2015 to provide food for thought. Maybe Multi Year Contracts are just plain risky all around. However... Multi Year Contracts are the cost of doing business.

You can't win unless you try.

I imagine that the free agent signing dance has a certain timeline to it that will go at it's own pace. I'm not going to worry because I'm sure Falvey and Lavine have the phone number of his agent. However... At this point... I'd prefer if Falvey and Lavine find out exactly where Yu Lives and then buy the homes on either side of him. Falvey moves into one and Lavine moves into the other. Exchange recipes... host block parties and give sage advice over the fence. http://www.rvgfanatic.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_1188315/WilWilJr.JPG

Not only is my head wrapped around it. I'm scratching other teams off the potential list and it's dwindling down. Dodgers and Yankees are going to try and stay under the cap. Red Sox are focused on hitting... JD and Hosmer should be priorities over Darvish and they probably don't want to go over the cap either. Cubs are possible but I think they will offer a bargain price instead of max price. They were willing to let Arrieta and Davis walk and potential payroll was probably why. Giants want hitting. D-Backs want J.D. Lots of the usual suspects may be sitting this one out.

One year deals are always preferred. However... it does appear that one year deals won't get the deal done anymore for decent bullpen.

I agree that Cubs didn't have the best bullpen in 2016. However... I shudder to think what would have happened if they didn't give up Glayber Torres to improve it. I also contend that the Indians had a fantastic bullpen and they almost won it all because of Miller, Allen, Shaw. Otero and McCallister. Kluber was great. The other two guys they had starting were Tomlin and Bauer. When building a roster... you want to turn on all the spigots. FA, IFA, Trade, Draft and Develop, Rule 5. You don't want to ignore or turn off any of the spigots. Same thing when it comes to: The ways you win a ball game. You want to crush them with your bats. You want your starters to hang zero's and you want to suck the life out of them by giving them very little hope of coming back against a killer bullpen. When they get down because you built a lead after crushing them with your bats and your starter hung some zeros. It is sure nice to have a bullpen full of arms to choose from. It is also nice to have them when you don't crush them with your bats and your starter doesn't hang some zero's. P.S. The Dodgers and Astros bullpen may have under performed a little in the W.S. but there was clear effort taken by the GM's to stack them up and the Astros were one of the teams that just spent 7 Million Plus AAV for two years to get Joe Smith. Also the Giants bullpen in 2014 was nothing to sneeze at. It was loaded. There is simply no excuse for any contending team to Craig Breslow the bullpen together any more. Bullpens may be fungible but they need to be fungible at a higher level.

Sometimes the art of finding someone off the scrap heap is simply giving them an opportunity.

Nobody is Kershaw :) IMO... When you look at the stats. Darvish looks a lot like Greinke. The only thing Darvish doesn't have is that big 2015 year that Greinke had. I like Darvish better personally.

I believe that the Twins won't have a choice. They will have to sign multi year deals to land the bullpen arms they need because the market will demand it. They will have to get better at predictability because the starters will be going shorter and shorter as the years go by. Unless it's a 40 year player who maybe has a year left and probably lowered his leverage by only considering teams that have a closer opening and will actually name him the closer.

I'm all about depth. I'm alright with Rodney... I hope he works out great. However... I want additions added to this team in case he doesn't work out great.

Verducci just went into my Dinosaur column on this special spreadsheet I keep by me. I agree that shopping for bullpen arms is pretty volatile. The baseball highways are littered with poor numbers and big contract combo's... although... it should be pointed out that in the small sample size world of relief pitching, one horrible performance can be hard to overcome and some metrics can end up looking worse than they actually are. Regardless... you just gotta do it and do your best to do it right. Monster bullpens are being built and they are producing victories. You handicap yourself getting a closer, a couple of setup guys and finishing off the staff with a bunch "I'm just trying to stay in the profession guys" who get to throw when the starter chokes. The closer goes down and everybody moves up a chair and pretty soon you are counting on one of those "I'm just trying to stay in the profession guys in a high leverage situation. The Yankees had a great bullpen and still went out and got Robertson and Kahnle. We knocked Severino out in the 1st inning and that bullpen beat us. The Indians bullpen was 7 quality deep. The Dodgers had arms lined up. The Red Sox. The Astros D-Backs Rockies The Nats didn't start with a great pen but they finished with a pretty nice one. Of all the playoff teams... Only the Twins and maybe the Cubs had what "I myself" considered to be sub-par bullpens. All 30 teams should be looking for or trying to create their own Andrew Miller. I'm trying to think of a team that had a lights out bullpen and didn't make the playoffs. I can't off the top of my head. All of this is driving the price up in my opinion. The evidence seems to be pretty clear... The Year is soon 2018... baseball is different than it was two decades ago and bullpens are producing playoff teams.

Bullpens are becoming the new currency. The Twins need to get bullpen serious. This is off season #3 of me saying this. The prices are reflecting it.' Wish I would have bought reliever stock.

It's like we can't get everyone to agree 100% on any topic. I think we all agree that Mosquitoes are horrible things. Apart from that... there is at least a minority opinion on every other thing in life. I know a guy who likes Orange Juice after brushing his teeth. I'm pro Pineda... even if he doesn't work out. I'm also anti orange juice after brushing my teeth.

Yep... We need some Major League Arms. But... I'm happy that we got a log jam of choices in Rochester to audition and choose from when the starters in Minnesota fail, struggle or get hurt. Depth!!! I love it!!!

They have to fill the same spot over and over again. Pitchers get hurt... sometimes in bunches. I don't do the #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 thing like some do. I'm simply looking for arms who can hang a zero on occasion and give the offense a chance to win a game and a team with depth has about 10 of those guys and use all of them during the course of a season. Doing the number thing... The past decade... we have been trotting 7's and 8's to fill in the gaps. I remember throwing Blackburn over and over again because we had nobody else. I remember PJ Walters, Pedro Hernandez. I remember having nobody to perform better than Vance Worley. I remember Yohan Pino and Logan Darnell. Call them 5th spot guys... it's OK with me as long as they are not 8th spot guys. Having potential guys who can actually get outs with Aaron Slegers, Felix Jorge, Dietrich Enns, Stephen Gonsalves, Zack Littell and Fernando Romero in Rochester... allows us to choose from whoever is doing best when they are needed and allows us to ignore who is struggling. Pat Dean won't be coming up because we have nobody else. Depth... I love It... I've been waiting for it.

Because I'm such a deep guy. It's easy for me to say: "Depth... I love it".

I don't want to see Mauer wearing another uniform. I also don't want to pay him a large amount of money. I'm hoping that both sides will be fair with each other. I hope Mauer doesn't try to squeeze extra money out of the Twins and I hope the Twins don't try to keep him with a low ball offer. I won't really have an idea on what that fair contract for both sides will look like until after the 2018 season concludes. Personally... I'm not looking to ask Mauer to retire until we have someone who out performs him. We don't have that yet... yet.

I agree with you Nick. They have been taking advantage of some under the radar stuff. Adding on 4 plus million in payroll to upgrade the farm with those Yankee prospects took some creativity. Acquiring the bonus pool cash and then turning that into additional prospects. If they add that glitzy move to these smaller forward thinking moves? We might get that franchise that we all deserve. I've been impressed... and they can impress me further if they go out and support this young team with solid off-season off pitching acquisitions.