yarnivek1972

Another difference is that Vargas isn't among the worst hitters in Twins history. Prior to the last 4 starts, I believe Gibson was the worst pitcher in Twins history with over 400 IP.

Paul Molitor was at least 5 years older when hired than any previous Twins manager, all the way back to Cookie Lavagetto. Most were in their early to mid 40s.

This isn't about expectations. This about a guy showing few signs of progress over the course of 4 years.

I would say what I blame Gibson for in terms of where he slots as a starter is that, at this point in his career, he isn't more than a number 4. To a large degree, that IS on him. He simply can't be counted on to show any consistency and lacks command of his pitches. Problems that, as I mentioned before, shouldn't be the case of a near 30 year old with 4 full seasons and part of another at the MLB level. I strongly disagree with the notion that Gibson has pitched "well" since the end of May. In June, Gibson made 6 starts. He did not get past the 6th inning in any of them. Two were technically "quality starts" (which means 4 weren't). In one of his "quality starts", he allowed 11 baserunners and 2 HR in 6 IP. That he allowed only 3 runs was less skill and more luck IMO. In the other, he allowed 8 baserunners in his 6 IP. That's not too bad for him, but I still have a difficult time calling that "pitching well". A couple other outings from June included a game in which he allowed 12 hits and another in which he walked 4. This is part of what you describe as "pitching well". Let's move to July. He made four starts, two were "quality". In the other two, there was a another 4 walk game and a game in which he allowed 7 runs, on 9 H, 2 BB and 2 HR. Ironically, he was shipped back to AAA after what was perhaps his best start in July. The FO felt he was pitching so "well" that they sent him down. Moving on to August. In his first three starts after his recall he failed to complete 6 innings. In two, failed to complete 5. I'm sorry, I have a REAL hard time calling this pitching "well". So, yeah, since (and including) his start on 8/22, the results are good. But again, he was facing the 12th, 13th and 14th ranked teams in the AL in terms of OPS. I keep bringing it up because IMO it matters. I'm well aware that some of the other Twins' starters struggled against those same teams. It's a fair enough point. But this isn't about them. This is about Gibson and whether he has turned some magical corner in his career. IMO, I see no change in Gibson from last year. He is still a guy who shows flashes of borderline brilliance. But he still has WAY too many outings where he is simply terrible. btw, after his starts against Toronto and Chicago, the first post of this thread pointed out that he had gotten more swings and misses in those starts. That those two teams are playing out the string was a factor IMO. In his two starts against Kansas City he threw 176 pitches and had 14 swings and misses, an 8% swing and miss rate. As it stands right now, I would rather spend the $ 5 mil or so that Gibson will likely get in arbitration on someone else. I'm pretty confident there will be guys out there that can put up a 5 ERA for less than that. Perhaps, if he does well down the stretch (including potential upcoming games against the Yankees and Indians), I may change my opinion.

I am going to reply to this in the Gibson thread since the post is about him specifically and not the game in general.

Not the inexperienced ones. Well, Busenitz. But the problem was the 3 relative veterans that pitched prior to Rogers got no one out. At what point does Moltor realize that those guys aren't getting the job done and that maybe he should try one of the other 5 guys down there?

Mike Moustakas figures to be available as a free agent. Sure, it would be better if he hit right handed, but he hits LHP just fine.

Rogers had a rough night but he's been one of the best lefty relievers in MLB this year. He certainly does not deserve to be lumped in with the others you named.

1) You don't ask your # 3 hitter to bunt. He's usually your BEST hitter. Right now, I'd say that is definitely what Polanco is. 2) You don't play for a tie on the road. You play for the win.

It gets dicey with a 13 man pitching staff. Even with 12, you have just 4 bench players. If two of them are infielders, that leaves one outfielder and a back up catcher. Sure Escobar has gotten some key hits and some key homeruns, but let's not pretend that we aren't talking about a guy who has a .740 OPS and it is close to his career BEST. All the Twins regulars except their catchers are either already higher than that or likely will be by season's end. Meaning, that even at Escobar's BEST, he really isn't good enough to be in the lineup ahead of anyone. Sure, he is nice back up. But so is Adrianza. Adrianza lacks HR power, but he provides speed and contact. I guess I would prefer a HR threat on my bench to be a big time threat (you know, what a lot of us HOPE Vargas could be). There are also payroll considerations. Escobar isn't going to make a ton by any stretch, but it will likely be $ 3- $ 5 mil in 2018. If the Twins pay him, there is that much less available for pitching.

If this article had been titiled "...biggest asset" things might have gotten juvenile for a minute. Colon has done well, because he knows what he's doing. He is able to hit his spots. Consistently. Sure, because of the lack of stuff it is going to result in a lot of hard contact. That's why Abner Doubleday put 7 guys behind him.

Typically, guys that do well with runners on have a tendency to induce swings and misses. That's to some degree Pressly (moreso than say Rogers or Belisle certainly). But it hasn't worked out that way. Largely a command issue IMO. He just isn't hitting his spots like he should be. Some guys never do. Sure, a guy like Kintzler who has a tendency to induce ground balls can succeed coming in with runners on and induce a GDP. But, what if there are runners on second and third with no one out? Ground ball probably scores a run. If it sneaks through a drawn in infield, it probably scores two.

Gibson isn't the 5th starter. He would currently be slotted ahead of Slegers and eventually Mejia. Two things bother/concern me. Yeah, it's nice that Gibson has been pitching well the last few weeks. Better than him pitching poorly. But the teams he has faced of late are some of the worst offenses in baseball. Of course, he's been known to pitch poorly in those situations too. That he is not is a positive. The other is consistency. Or the lack thereof. One expects Mejia and Berrios to be inconsistent. That's part of being 23-24 with limited MLB experience. Gibson is neither young or inexperienced. At this point in his career he should be able to consistently hit his spots and have command of his pitches. But he doesn't. I just don't see him worthy of any kind of long term investment based on the results to date. As for 2018, I'll get back to you after the season.

We're seeing brilliant sunsets in Minnesota as a result of the fires. KC might be too far off the track. It's past the Rockies and south of the typical jet stream track.

I'm not willing to put that ALL on him. Some of it could be Molitor letting him face RHB with runners on. For a specialist like Boshers, the two most important numbers are how he does against LHB and how he does against the first batter he faces (which, in theory should almost always be a LHB). He gave up a homer to a leftie the other day. That's his failure all the way. But, it does happen. Even O'Rourke gave up the one to Granderson last year. I haven't been able to locate first batter faced data, but I know I have seen it before. It's a very key stat for a reliever. After all, you were brought in to get that guy. btw, looking at game logs on B-R, one can check monthly inherited runner data. For Boshers: April 1-0, May 0-0, June 7-3, July 2-2, August 6-0, September 4-3. So, he did fine in August. Other than that, not so much.

Or a giant rain barrel in the southeast. Then ship it out to the Pacific Northwest.

Castro and Gimenez may have reverse splits right now. But their careers suggest they are typical platoon tandem.

Perkins is left handed and breathing. All he has to do to get a job next year somewhere is say he wants one.

I guess I meant finding a guy this year. O'Rourke has a pretty small sample size to judge, but what he did vs LHB in 2016 certainly can't be ignored. One would think a guy in his role, who really wasn't a hard thrower to begin with, should be able to bounce back better than a hard thrower like Burdi, or a starter like May.

Is it his fault who Molitor lets him face?

Wait, you were near the Twins pen last night AND near other people?

He has a career .580ish OPS vs LHB. That's pretty good. Really good, even. If he were perfect against them it would be .000. Point being finding a guy who is substantially better vs LHB is not likely. Andrew Miller has obviously had a much longer career, but his career OPS vs LHB is in the mid .600 range. Jesse Orrosco's career OPS vs LHB was .588, and he's considered one of the best ever.

It's worth pointing out that when (if?) Miguel Sano comes back this year, he will likely be limited to DH duty. I believe there was even something on the official site that alluded to that possibility. Of course, that may not be what you mean by "fully healthy". Of course, there could be different players on the roster next year. Grossman is certainly not a sure thing. Personally, I like Dozier in the lead off spot. There's something to be said about the comfort level of a particular hitter in a particular spot. A wisened sage once reportedly said that 90% of the game is half mental. I've always felt Mauer was a perfect # 2 hitter, because he does a good job making contact and it isn't afraid to take pitches (to allow base stealers to steal). Sano, for all his faults, is still the Twins best all around hitter and that's usually who you put third. Then you need protection. The Twins really don't have a PROVEN guy for that role at this time. Rosario fits the bill best at this time. If we ignore Polanco's horrendous June and July (or at least chalk it up to the grieving process), it's hard to ignore what he does from both sides of the plate and his ability to make contact plays in the middle of the lineup sandwiched between some guys that can struggle with contact from time to time. Buxton has been inconsistent (in case anyone hadn't noticed), but his numbers are still worthy of an important lineup spot. Kepler has been up and down as well. He needs to hit lower IMO mainly because he has not figured out LHP yet. At this point, Escobar probably should be playing third, assuming Sano won't when he does come back, with Adrianza spelling him. So far, Ehire has done slightly better vs RHP (although those numbers will change after today's HR off Snell) but Eduardo has been considerably better vs LHP. Someone has to catch. It's in the rules somewhere I think. It certainly isn't going to change much at this point. So, to condense, I would go: 2b Dozier 1b Mauer dh Sano lf Rosario ss Polanco cf Buxton rf Kepler 3b Escobar/Adrianza c Castro/Giminez

Probably should put Gee back on the bullpen usage chart.

Sure, a team with a strong, deep rotation can. Not convinced that describes the Twins.