ewen21

The majority of these links say most illegal immigrants in our country are because of Visa overstays. I am not disputing that. I concede that point.

I want to stop the flow of illegals coming into this country at the southern border because it has created an untenable situation on several different levels. You keep saying "these people" as though I have a beef with Hispanic people. You make THAT the issue and it's kind of a cheap tactic. As I said before, I will outline the things you've ignored once again when k get home. I will also attempt to respond to your links. I need time to read them and I'm actually about to take off for Albany in a few. When I get settled in at home tonight I will come back here. This discussion is far too important. ...And from my perspective it has nothing to do with race. Inject it into the conversation whenever you want but I'm not interested in it. I said plenty in the privilege and responsibility thread if you want to respond to me there

American "racism" isn't why the three Central American countries are among the countries with the highest murder rates in the world. Nor is it the reason why antiquated systems are still in place at the border. Keep running interference with the race card, though

En route to the airport. I'll have plenty to say later after I check out all of Carole's links. i promise I'll read as much as I can, but I honestly don't believe most of you read the links and videos I provided (if response to said items are any indication) This HE'S RACIST stuff needs to be put on the shelf just once if we are going to have an actual discussion. It has nothing to do with how we got in this situation and what needs to be done so please try to give it a rest

Your concept of a border wall and my concept of a border wall are clearly different. We have stringent laws for people who fly from one state to another. I am in Florida right now. I could not have flown here going through TSA and providing them with valid ID. What is wrong with having enforcement on that level? Build a continuous wall with no breaches and have secured doors that only open when armed law enforcement open them. Have armed border patrol ready to apprehend those who attempt to go over, under or around the wall and deport them. Game over.

Do you now see that I am speaking primarily about the three Central American nations? I figured this was clear from the outset, but by now I would hope you will concede that. People who enter legally and overstay their Visa is another issue altogether. It is equally worthy of a discussion, but it shouldn't be used to sabotoge another discussion. At this point I need to ask where is your data on bolded part. These people in question are crossing illegally and in record numbers. You don't see this with people from Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Ghana, Thailand, the Philipenes, etc..This is why I am not talking about those countries or European nations or Australians, etc.. It's another issue This is about our SOUTHERN BORDER. The crisis exists simply because they can cross on foot. They don't need to deal with TSA or need to fly. They deal with border patrol and antequated laws which allows them to manipulate our system. They cross without any intention of doing it legally or going through the process because they know they are simply detained and have an excellent chance of being released. (I cited the NY Times on that point if you doubt my credibility) I think Trump is right. There needs to be a DETERRENT and a wall helps. It is unfortunate that it's come to that, but if you can't see the problem that isn't everyone else's problem. Go talk to people in Mexico and ask them what they think of the caravans of people coming though their country. Speak to those living in and near border towns--many of them immigrants or born of immigrants. This situation is entirely different and it has morphed into something bad. If anyone feels racist simply talking about it then I really don't even know what to say to them. Stop being so paralyzed by a word. This has nothing to do with race

This is what you asked me

Carole.....are you seriously asking me this? You thanked post that contained exactly this inside of it just the post before mine.

This HE'S SO RACIST! pretty much says to me that you won't have a rational conversation about immigration. You say "there isn't a problem" and this says to me you haven't explored the situation at all. There is no way you can pretend a problem doesn't exist if you actually spend time researching what's gone down over the last several years. Pretending nothing is wrong isn't going to make the issue go away.

I don't "want to label every Muslim a terrorist" Because I don't appreciate what Omar doesn't make her a terrorist. It makes her someone I cannot like that. I know people who were on the scene during that event. What Omar said makes me sick and so do people who claim it was "an inside job" As far as Christian terrorist organizations go you're going to have to explain this one. We had a black president serve two terms

"Radical terrorist Christians" has what to do with anything we've discussed vis a vis immigration? Why is race being injected into this discussion on immigration For my part, i am far more concerned about Muslim terrorists than what Carole calls "Christian terrorists" Not sure how she got there.

To talk about root causes doesn't get to the matter at hand. It's lip service. It's like telling a kid who broke his neck skateboarding he should have been safer. No kidding we could do work to help there, but what does it do for the issue now? Who's to say our relief will have the kind of impact you envision?

The border has been a problem for a long time. If people can cross the border without going through the process, get detained, screened, set loose inside America with a pending court date not in the foreseeable future.... That's a problem. It's a problem that in 2014 52,000 unaccompanied children crossed the border. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna147601 How can putting up a wall and posing a merit system (not advocating it, but Canada uses one) not going have an impact? A wall means there is someone on the other side, not a greeter. A wall means you can come in but only on our terms. If they HAVE TO follow the same process Africans, Asains and Europeans do we aren't in this situation. This isn't a race thing, as some here try to suggest. They found a soft spot in our immigration process and it emboldens (and compels them) to do this. I'd feel the same way if Italians, Irish and Poles did the same thing. Please someone tell me they don't believe me, and please stop alluding to race. I don't understand why some folks are so challenged by enforcing laws rather than a system that creates a loophole for people simply because of geography. It's totally unmanageable and if you don't believe me look into what Mexicans think this situation. Trump spoke about a problem which ALREADY EXISTED. His rhetoric didn't somehow create this problem. He's trying to fix the problem and the democrats can't/won't/haven't come up with a perscription. They are too busy focusing on the Mueller Report

The homocide rates in Cenrtal America coupled with lax border policies that existed while Trump was on Celebrity Apprentice is the issue. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle This idea that inaugurating Trump inticed millions of Muslims and Latinos to rush to America really is a load of BS. Seems to me as though that's been suggested here

This border problem was inherited. Furthermore, Trump has not been allowed to implement his plan to control border issues. People just don't like the idea of a wall being constructed. Makes us seem too barbaric. Who cares what it looks like? There were children rushing the border in record numbers back in 2014. Either you forgot or you never knew https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/10/10/18088638/child-migrant-crisis-unaccompanied-alien-children-rio-grande-valley-obama-immigration Part of what cemented Trump as a "racist" was his hard stance on this issue. He acknowledged the issue. He's only now woken the democrats up with his sanctuary city ploy

Obama couldnt condemn Islamic terrorism. Where was your outrage for that? I never threw a conniption over that. I know some people were angered by it but nowhere near how whites on the far left got about Trump on Charlottiesville. Is Trump an Islamophobe for posting what Ihlan said with an image of 9/11 accompanying her words? Amazing how people carry on about that. I'm GLAD he did that. People who there use wouldn't see or hear those comments get to see them. I'm far more disturbed by her as an American than I am Trump. For the life of me I cannot understand anyone who sees that the other way

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kveo.com/amp/news/local-news/border-patrol-identifies-over-3-000-fraudulent-family-cases/1936727806 Further evidence of illegal activity engaged in by asylum seekers.

The democrats need to get over the Mueller Report, but they know they HAVE TO keep the issue alive until the campaign trail. The desperation is interesting to watch, but it's time for democratic congress reanalyze their view of immigration. The first step is to acknowledge the problem and I think some democrats are actually waking up to the reality of the situation--even if it means making a concession.

If you are saying some who supports Trunp supports racist, fascist, homophobic, xenophobic ideas you are saying the person is racist. These wild accusations directed toward our president indicts every person who supports him. This mindset demonstrates a form of intolerance that is counterproductive to any kind of discussion regarding politics. Go ahead and be part of that lunch mob. This is the kind of thing, quite frankly, that has played a part in me supporting Trump. I would not vote for him, but this hysteria from the left makes me want to wear a MAGA hat to a Twins game just to watch what will happen.

It really is a shame I got into cigarettes. I swear it started on the golf course in my late 20s. I'm not into cigars (and a couple of friends of mine were) so I just figured bring cigarettes instead. That marked a period in my life of about 15 years and it was born from golfing of all things. I would smoke sporadically, but even a little isn't good. Up until two years ago I smoked a little here and there until one day it just suddenly become disgusting to me. I don't smoke anymore and I don't golf much more (unfortunately) I think medical marijuana is a good thing since it can help people and create jobs. I'm even OK with recreational use so long as it's done in private and never around children.

To be clear, if you are saying someone "supports racist ideas" you are calling that person racist. All it takes is a hat, a shirt, a bumper sticker or and a sign. In fact, possessing any of those things is a risky proposition. Evidence of this is EVERYWHERE. How do we explain the non white people who support Trump?

If you support Trump you are a Nazi, racist, what???? If that isn't the quintessential example of liberal intolerance I don't know what is. I did not vote for the guy but he is in office and I support him, after all. He's gotten some things wrong and some things right. I happen to like the fact he is a social gadfly. He's forcing issues out, but at the same time he's creating big time division. One major tool often utilized against anyone who can't testify that Trump is a "racist, islamaphobe, misogynistic, narcissistic......" Is you are branded as any one of--or all of those designations. I see that as not only unfair, but also a sure sign bigotry. It basically says anyone with Trump hats, shirts, etc are racist. The ironic thing is it is my experience such people I see off the internet are quick to say they "don't like judgemental people"

I hear you, Brooks. Yet at the same time people are going to smoke tobacco no matter what. I don't like to concede that but it's too ingrained in the human mind. Smoking is so damn connect to us and has been for centuries. The surgeon general stamp has been around since 1964. That's a few generations with all that information so I don't think prohibiting tobacco is a net positive. More like a net negative as it was with alcohol. This coming from a guy who knows the effects of cigarettes. If we could snap our fingers and make it disappear I would sign for that

Beavis and Buttigieig

Leviathan, what are "underhanded purposes" in this case?