whydidnt

I don't think too many are really worried about the move itself. I'm just tired of the team trying to sell these moves as "big" when they are substituting one replacement level guy for another. How hard would it have been for Gardenhire to say, "he's been playing well at Rochester, so we're bringing him up to see if he can help"? Instead we get "most exciting", two times, as if he's going to save the season. I'm far more worried about the fact that a guy like Mastroianni or Walters is all we have in the upper levels to bring up. THAT is what has me the most worried. The Twins system has completely FAILED over the last few years, and when things aren't working you need to change them, but we aren't seeing changes in the system, just some moving of parts. That is what has me worried. I want some light at the end of the tunnel, that's all.

Those of you that think the manager has no impact on the team and doesn't do anything besides filling out a lineup card must never have played sports at any level or coached. I played as kid and coached youth sports for about 10 years while my daughter was growing up. The manager/coaches have a huge impact on the team and players, from teaching them how to play right, to discussing when to implement strategy to making sure they are trying their best and playing within the concept of the team, to even finding out what buttons to push to get players to perform better. You can say that once a guy makes it to the major leagues that he has learned all of this, but I would reply by asking if you've watched any of the games this year? I'm convinced that all of this falls under the direction of the manager, and is his responsibility. What he doesn't have total control over, and appears to be the Twins biggest issue is the lack of talent. However, let's not forget that he does have input in personel decisions and that he seems to have a tendency to like and play "gritty guys" over talented guys. Will firing Gardenhire and replacing him with a HOF manager put this team in the World Series? Doubtful. However, if they continue to lose 2 out of 3 games than I think it's time for a new voice and new direction, if for no other reason that what we are doing isn't working and how could it get any worse?

Sounds a lot like what he said before we brought up Rene Rivera last year, doesn't it? We can hope that the last couple weeks in AAA is the real Mastroianni. But I think we should expect the previous results we saw at AA and AAA over an extended period are probably more likely, which means he's an end of the bench guy in the majors at best. Really a sad state of affairs for the Twins, they seem to have maybe 12-15 guys in the whole organization that really are of Major League caliber, and you have to go way down to low A to find prospects that look like they'll be more than average major leaguers. Don't know what the plan is, but it's going to have to start this year by dumping any but your core group of players to recover the payroll $ so you can spend some dollars on real players over the next couple of years. The good news is you can find tickets to about any game for under $5.00 now if you just want to watch some baseball and enjoy the best spring we've had in MN in years.

An additional thought, it's interesting how Anderson appears to throw a little water at the organization in this article as well when he talks about how he's got to have the guys he has pitch the way they do because they basically suck. I know he doesn't say it in so many words, but the article indicates "Anderson points out that the Twins starting staff, with the exception of Liriano, must pitch to contact out of necessity". I of course have my own biases, but I read that to say, the guys we have don't have the best stuff, so we tell them to hit a spot and hope for the best. In fairness as well, Ryan indicates he wants to add some guys in this years draft that have better stuff, but at the same time he adds "I'm just looking for guys that get outs." Isn't that how we got here in the first place, and a little contradictory?

I think Bracken and the Twins are just getting into semantics. When I hear Ryan say "I believe in getting outs, and I don't care how they do it," I want to scream. Strike outs are more valuable than other outs. The fact he doesn't even know this explains a lot about why are staff is constructed as it is. And while strike outs alone won't determine a pitchers success, their is statistical evidence that points out that a pitchers K/BB ratio is a good general indicator and strong evidence on top of that showing pitchers with a good K/BB Ratio (2.5+) and K/9 5.6+ the ERA is significantly better. So, of course you want your pitchers to throw strikes, but you also want them to have good enough stuff that those strikes aren't hit all over the place, and that sometimes hitters swing and miss. That is what appears to be missing from the pitchers we currently have at the major league level. I'm not sure Radke is a great example because he had some of the best control ever, but his K/BB rate was always superb, but not his K/9, and his career ERA was 4.22, hardly a number indicating a great pitcher. His career K/9 rate was only 5.4. But I think there was only a couple years that most of us watching him pitch thought he was an "Ace", most agreed he was best suited to a #2 or 3 role. Maddux career K/9 was 6.1, to go with that excellent command and control. Nick Blackburn, who is making something like 4.5million has a career k/9 of 4.3, Jason Marquis at 3M, career K/9 is 5.2. Pavano's K/9 with the Twins is 4.8. You can't successfully build a major league staff around guys like this, but the Twins have been intent on proving to us they can for years. You have to be extremely lucky to allow that many balls to be put in play and still get outs, you're basically saying your defense is so good that you can defy statistical law and more of the balls hit off your pitchers will be turned into outs than those of your opponents, which is absurd. I'll leave with this quote from Bill James "High-strikeout pitchers in today’s game are dramatically more effective than low-strikeout pitchers,".

Well, what's there to say, but the farm appears to be as devoid of strike out type starters as the big league club. They have tried to bring in some harder throwers over the last could years but have failed miserably. They are all way too wild or seem to get hurt. The philosophy has been so ingrained into the organization that it seems like they don't know what do with hard throwers when they get them??

I don't think so. I don't think it had been announced yet when Seth posted this.

I think the Twins have been pretty bad at managing when to move players to the DL, but in this case I don't really mind the wait. Look at the guys people are talking about to replace him (I know Dozier got the call), but mentioning Bates, Florimon, Chang, etc... really are any of those guys going to help the Twins offense the way Morneau would if he's able to play healthy? The possible callups are so bad, I think the Twins were right to wait, it's not like these guys are going to be of much help anyway. Not worth the possible loss of Morneau for 10 days if he can play IMO. Even Dozier at this point isn't going to be much of an upgrade over Carroll or Valencia. I would have agreed if there was someone crushing in the AA or AAA that could have played OF-1B, but that guy doesn't exist. It is what it is.

I think the scary thing is that if you look at what the Twins are paying their starters, they are paying about the same or more for their rotation as every other team in the division. Yes, that includes Baker because that's a cost. This includes teams like the White Sox who are paying Peavy 17M and the Tigers with Verlander at 20M. The difference is those teams all have some young starters making just 2-3 million that are producutive, guys like Scherzer, Masterson and Danks. Unless you're the Yankees, Angels, etc. with very deep pockets you can't put together a decent rotation and stay within budget, without developing your own guys. The Twins have failed in this area, paying more for Blackburn, Liriano, Baker, etc. that the results they have received. Either the scouting, the development program, or the coaching staff (in both the majors and minors) has failed. Probably some combination. Starting Pitching is a scare commodity and you typically have to pay a premium in the market to obtain it. They need to fix whatever is broken or we are going to start looking like the Orioles of the last decade with year after year of losses and little hope due to lack of decent pitching.

I think the article echoes what many of us have been saying in this forum recently. Right now, the "Twins way" is not working. It's time to make changes and for the team to look at new ways of doing things and improving. It's down right sad that this team is so poorly put together. Let's hope ownership decides to get interested in the team and makes the changes necessary for us to have a competitive team in that beautiful ball park!

Of course, as the saying goes, it's a lot easier to replace 1 manager than 25 players, though.

Well, I think many of us thought the Twins made a decent move bringing Thomas in as a 4th OF. He's not going to keep striking out more than 1/2 his time up unless Vavra has really messed with his head. He's always been a big strike out guy, but the current rate has to be of historic proportions. If he was a 4th OF starting maybe once or twice a week, you'd hope he'd play more like what we expected the Twins were getting. However, it seems like he is the LH part of a RF platoon right now and that is bad. I would rather see the Twins see if Plouffe can make it as an everyday player. I have my doubts, but I'd much rather see if he can figure things out than watch Thomas flail away like he has. As for Willingham in RF vs. LF, Gardenhire said that he'd talked with Willingham and Josh was obviously more comfortable in left. That's why Willingham is in left instead of right. It goes without saying he's more comfortable in left than right, that's where he's played his entire career. Are you more comfortable sleeping in your own bed, or that stiff board they have at a hotel? The question is what is better for the team, and that's what the manager's job is to decide, I think some of us disagree with the decision, but let's be serious..how much of a difference does it really make. I don't think there is that big of a difference at the ML level in value of playing a guy in right vs. left. I will say I think Gardenhire makes a lot of these decisions based on "player comfort" instead of what might be best for the team. I'm sure he feels that having a guy comfortable is best for the team, so in his mind that's the right decision. I just don't always agree. Sometimes being a little uncomfortable isn't the worse thing and making sure your get your best players in the lineup is more important.

I think that like most organizations that have some success, the success went to their heads and ruined things. They figured their philosophy and system was so good that they didn't have to adjust and if a little of something was good, then a lot of it must be great. We saw this in the types of players they drafted and how they developed them. Trying to force every pitcher to be more concerned with throwing strikes than getting outs, trying to get every hitter to go the other way, rather than pull one over the fence. In short they became arrogant about the "Twins Way". It appears they recognized this in the 2011 draft, but we really haven't seen changes in the field staff to also reflect any change in organizational philosophy. If you want to give credit to Gardenhire and his staff for their past success than you also have to allow them to share the blame for the current state of affairs. Over the last 3 years, we have not seen young pitchers or hitters show any incremental improvement from year to year. For a team that is all about building from within, this is critical. The fact that the Twins lost 99 games last year and didn't make a single change in the field staff leads me to believe the organization is broken to some extent. You can certainly say the staff isn't responsible all the injuries and lack of depth, but the fact is the team was absolutely terrible and the players just didn't seem prepared to play at the major league level.

Are you sure about this? It doesn't make sense. If teams could put the player back on the 40 man without consequence wouldn't the Twins just DFA Mourneau and add him back on Friday when they determine his long term status? It would seem to be a huge loophole. Teams could carry just a couple starters and have the other 3 DFAd and just brought back for their turns, right? I think once you DFA a guy, you have to either waive, trade or release him. If he clears waivers you could re-sign him, but I don't think you can just decide to add him back to the roster without doing one of the other 3 things first.

Sure was, we basically traded Revere, Hughes and Burroughs for Thomas and Butera. Not a net positive any way you slice it.

I was going to post that their isn't anything that could get me to question my fandom...until the really strange roster moves the Twins seem to keep making. I'm actually putting off getting tickets to some upcoming games until I see how things shake out, but I'm having a difficult time financially supporting a team that seems to have a death wish. I think it may be like giving an alcoholic a litre of Vodka as a Birthday Present.

I don't really get it either. If Mauer can't play they are left with just a 1 person bench? Have to assume Mauer can play, but if that's the case I don't understand why you need Butera. I think it shows the Twins have zero confidence in Franky tonight and figure the bullpen is going to be well used. That's the only explanation I can come up with at this point for keeping 13 pitchers, when you are down 1, possibly 2 hitters to begin with.

They DFA'd Burroughs for the spot. Unless I'm forgetting someone that means if Mauer can't play we have 1 bench guy? 2 of Plouffe/Thomas/Butera have to play, right? Mourneau is in MN right now, so he won't be available. Not sure I understand this plan at all. Also means that Butera is obviously more than "insurance", doesn't it? If Mauer can play, then I don't understand the rush to get Butera here...

This has been my assumption. Do you get to watch the games, or have you seen reports confirming this? If so, does it make sense for Sano just to keep laying off and taking walks, or is the rest of lineup just not going to make the opposition pay?

And they used him a total of ZERO innings!! He hasn't caught since 2008. Thanks for helping me prove my point!

I think you hit a homerun with this reply. I agree that people focus more on what he hasn't done that all the good he has. I include myself in this, because I get very frustrated watching him hit another grounder to 2nd or watching him take the first pitch even thought it's a fat one right down the middle. My frustration isn't so much that he hasn't been good, because he has, it's that I think he could be better if he'd be willing to make adjustments. I mean isn't that what separates the truly great from the very good? When guy comes up and has a fast start, don't all the "experts" tell us to wait until the second time through the league, to see what kind of adjustments are made and how the player adapts? It's seemed at times Joe AND his manager have been too willing to say, "it's working, don't mess with it" instead of "let's see if we can take this to the next level".

Can you please explain why Doumit, Mauer and Parmalee can't play without having Butera as insurance? Seems that having insurance when you are 6-15 might be a luxury you can't afford. Shouldn't the Twins be more concerned about getting the best players onto the roster so they might possibly win more than one out of every 3-4 games? Every other team in the league thinks it's a luxury, but not the Twins I guess, they know better, right? I swear, some of you make it sound as though Mauer and Doumit both leave every game with an injury. It just doesn't happen frequently enough to worry about enough to weaken an already weak bench.

If both Doumit and Mauer are in the lineup, the other guy is still the backup. What difference does it make if they are in the lineup or not? The Tigers went through almost all of 2010 with Avila and Martinez in the same situation as Mauer and Doumit, only rarely having a 3rd catcher on the roster and somehow managed to win the division. When Olivo got hurt this year, the Mariners to decided they could live with Jaso and Montero, despite the fact Montero will be DHing most days. I suspect the only reason they had 3 guys to begin with is that neither Jaso or Olivo is really a starter. It's just a waste of a roster spot unless one of your guys is actually banged up. That's the only time a team should carry a third C unless it's a guy that you can count on as a pinch hitter, which Butera is definitely not.

You bring up a good point regarding Mauer's knee. If he isn't able to play C for a few days, then yes it does make sense to have a 3rd C. Hope that's all there is to it.

For fun, just looked at the rest of the AL's rosters. Guess what, your Twins are now the ONLY team in the AL carrying 3 catchers. Yet, some will still argue that Gardy doesn't have an obsession with having a backup catcher. It's a flaw and Ryan shouldn't feed the beast by giving him this unneeded safety net.