one_eyed_jack

I like Gardy, and I think he's a good manager, but it's time for a change. Things have gone stale, we need a fresh voices. There's no sense firing him now. The ideal situation, which will never happen, is that Gardy and the Twins mutually decide to part ways.

And to think of all hyperventilating in the wake of that trade and silly talk about how much more we should have been able to get for him. He's the same player he's always been. He'll tease you with glimpses of greatness, but inevitably let you down when it counts. This performance will always epitmoize Liriano to me: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200809260.shtml 2008. We had just swept the Whities at the Dome, the last win coming in dramatic walk-off fashion against Jenks. One series to go, 3 at the Dome against the light-hitting Royals. A series win puts us in the postseason. Liriano was our starter for the first game of that series, and he got shelled. At home. By one of the weakest lineups in the league. Momentum gone, took the wind right out of our sails. He comes through there, and there's no need for a game 163.

Heck of a game by Florimon. Still don't quite know what to make of Deduno, but he's been better than most of the other guys we've run out there this year. After the KC series, we've got 12 of the next 15 against the Tigers, Yanks and Whities, so the Twins will play a role in the stretch run. Just not the one you want to be playing. Speaking of the Tigers, their D did them in again tonight. Remember after they signed Fielder how everyone was talking about what an unstoppable offensive powerhouse they would be? Not so much. They've scored fewer runs than the Twins.

---Wow, that's defining greatness pretty darn narrowly. I shudder to think about how graphic something must be for you to think it fits the definition of pornography.

Had you made a similar post about Valencia last year, I might have agreed with you. Obviously wasn't close enough to the situation to really know, but it sure seemed like he thought he was God's gift to baseball, even with his nightly errors in the field and Butera-esque production at the plate. Don't see any of that with Plouffe.

OK, I'm more of an exclusive Hall guy, but It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Legends. When assessing someone's HOF candidacy, the question is not whether they measure up to those guys. If it were, there would be a total of about a dozen guys on in the Hall. \

I tend to err on the side of exclusivity when it comes to the Hall, but Larkin clearly belongs. He's one of the 10 best ever the play the position, and arguably in the top 5. When you consistently put up the kind of offensive numbers he did while playing elite D at short for a dozen straight years, that's enough to punch your ticket to Cooperstown. With most guys, it's a stretch to make the argument that they do belong. Larkin is one of those rare guys where I think it's a stretch to say he doesn't.

Twins with a walk-off, Vikes in OT on the same afternoon in Minneapolis. Probably won't see that againi for a while. Love seeing Morneau crush baseballs like that.

I'd say no on Dale Murphy. Great player, but not for enough of his career. I know the HOF voters get flack for their insistence on longevity. But at the same time, you can't start inducting every guy who strung together a few great seasons. If that were enough, then there's a whole slew of guys who should be in, Tony O., Don Mattingly, Dave Parker, Albert Belle, Steve Garvey, etc. But every time you loosen standards like that, it becomes less a Hall of Fame and more a Hall of Very Good.

Crime Dog is the classic borderline guy. I tend to err on the side of exclusivity, so I'd probably vote 'Nay' if I had a vote.

Oh I was, and that sucked. But at least we were treated to a nice stretch of relevance in the 00's. The Pirates and Royals have been consistently sucking pond water since the early 90's. 2 straight decades of utter futility.

Yeah that team is a mess. Gotta think Acta will be first up on the managerial chopping block at the end of the year.

I never completely check out, but I've gradually started to disengage in early-to-mid August the last couple of years when the team has been simply unwatchable at times. I watched some of the O's-Yanks on MLB tonight, and it made me long for the days when the Twins were playing meaningful games in September. Hard to believe it was only 2 years ago, it feels like it's been forever. And if this is what 2 years feels like, I can't imagine what it must be like to be a diehard Pirates or Royals fan.

Chris Perez went off on Cleveland's ownership and management. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8343937/cleveland-indians-closer-chris-perez-critical-team-management And part of his tirade was this: "Josh Willingham would look great in this lineup. They didn't want to [pay] for that last year. ... That's the decision they make, and this is the bed we're laying in." I know Perez is a bit of a loose cannon, but it's bizarre to see a player cite the Twins as an example of a team willing to spend money to get good players. A decade ago when the Twins were known for being able to compete on a shoestring payroll, I wouldn't have believed I'd be reading quotes like this about them one day.

You can always find moves of any manager to second-guess, you've got to give Buck a lot of credit. He brought a winning attitude to an organization that allowed a culture of losing to fester for years. I think managers often get a lot more credit/blame for their teams' success/failure than they deserve. But this is one case where the manager has clearly made a difference. Though it is pretty bizarre that only 4 teams in baseball have more wins than the O's, but only 10 have a worse run differential.

I don't know how you compare 2 such different players from different eras, but it makes for fun debate. But one thing I never buy into is the "2-0" argument. By that rationale Chuck Knoblauch should be considered a better player than Rod Carew. This isn't tennis. It makes no sense to judge individual players solely by team accomplishments.

Well let's see. All-Star selections: Puckett 10, Lofton 6 Top-10 MVP votes: Puckett 10, Lofton 1 Gold Gloves: Puckett 7, Lofton 4 Silver Sluggers: Puckett 6, Lofton 0 So while I suppose such an argument could be made, I would find it exceedingly difficult to take seriously.

----Did you actually read what Nick wrote? To be clear, I'm not saying that the Twins' medical staff compares well to the rest of the league. They might even be among the worst. But I don't believe we have the evidence to make that assessment. Judging a doctor's performance isn't like judging a pitcher, or hitter, or manager, or GM. Each situation is unique and there are lot more factors in play than some would assume. These comments need not come from a medical expert to be given weight. I read him to be pointing out that the constant railing on the medical staff is coming from people who have neither the knowledge nor expertise to make educated evaluations of their performance, which unlike judging a player, is infinitely more complex than just making conclusions based on outcomes. This sentence is actually pretty incorrect... Medical performance has always been judged based on outcomes, and in probably 2-3 years (some pilots are up and running now - google: ACO), most doctors will be "paid for performance" (where "performance" is mostly outcomes.) As far as the Twins' situation goes, there are a lot of issues, including the doctors; but players and especially management have to take some of the blame for the waiting for Godot to go to the DL... Missdiagnosis, is another story ---Nice try, but what you're raising here is completely irrelevant.. Most of the criticisms of the Twins medical staffs here have been based solely on end results of treatment. That is not how ACO pay-for-performance standards work. At all. They don't say "well, the patient died, so the doctor must have done a crappy job." Medical professionals have never been judged that way, and it would be completely senseless to do so. ACO's are looking at trends in how improved practices can lead to better outcomes. It's about best practices, not end results. Sometimes doctors do all that is humanly possible, but the outcome is not the one everyone was hoping for.

It would be interesting to see some actual quotes from these players. Were they openly critical about the medical staff? Or were they just expressing frustration about not being able to get back on the field sooner, which is being interpreted as a critique of the medical staff? Either way, I don't know that it conclusively proves anything. The players are the recipients of the treatment, so they know a lot more that anyone here about what the medical staff actually does. But they don't have the expertise, so even if they are critical of the medical staff, it doesn't mean those criticisms are valid. Players have different goals than doctors, so some tension there is inevitable.

They just saw their division lead evaporate by getting swept in Detroit and have now lost 6 of 7. So it seems an odd time to be talking up the Whities. I've never been sold on them, I don't think they'll make the postseason.

So Sal acts like a dad and declines the invitation to crap on his son in the press. How utterly scandalous! Butera's presence on the roster is one of several topics about which there is far too much hand-wringing over in these parts. He's played in about a quarter of the team's games and had 99 PA's. If your only source of info about the 2012 Twins was this forum, you'd think it was all because of Butera, Mauer, Nishioka and Gray that we're in last place.

----Did you actually read what Nick wrote? To be clear, I'm not saying that the Twins' medical staff compares well to the rest of the league. They might even be among the worst. But I don't believe we have the evidence to make that assessment. Judging a doctor's performance isn't like judging a pitcher, or hitter, or manager, or GM. Each situation is unique and there are lot more factors in play than some would assume. These comments need not come from a medical expert to be given weight. I read him to be pointing out that the constant railing on the medical staff is coming from people who have neither the knowledge nor expertise to make educated evaluations of their performance, which unlike judging a player, is infinitely more complex than just making conclusions based on outcomes.

Extremely tough call on what to do with Morneau. His future possibilities range from "return to MVP form as one of the league's most feared hitters" to "Bonk on melon, career over". So no matter what you do, there's a decent-sized risk you'll regret it. I'd tend to keep him because I think it's hard to find guys as good as Justin can be, but I'd certainly understand it if we didn't.

---Yeah extending a guy after what will undoubtedly be consecutive 90+ loss seasons definitely sends the wrong message. I've always been a Gardy supporter, but I think it's time for a change. Both for Gardy and the Twns. As Nick pointed out on Twitter earlier today, this season has been a Groundhog Day repeat of last year. Awful start, then a midseason surge, followed by a late season collapse. Not that you can pin that all on Gardy. But while 1 season can be dismissed as an aberration, 2 is the start of a pattern, and a sure sign that it's time to change course.

My thoughts on this: 1) I've generally been a Gardy supporter, and I think he's a good manager, and he deserves some credit for keeping the team consistently competitive for a good stretch. However, I think it might be time for a change. Sometimes when the same voice has been speaking too long, people just stop listening. I don't know that this is the case here, but it sure doesn't feel the same as it did a few years ago. 2) That said, the impact of the manager on wins and losses is often highly overrated in these parts. You'd think this were a video game and Gardy were holding the controller. I think replacing Gardy may be a better move than keeping him, but it's silly to think that another manager is going to do all that much better with this roster. 3) I wonder if Gardy isn't ready for a change too. He's looked frustrated and defeated towards the end of the last couple of seasons. Maybe he's ready for a new managerial gig, I'm sure he'd get offers if he were available.