jimmer
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Everything posted by jimmer
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Are you saying that tossing a bat in the fashion he did calls for an ejection of a player and that there are rules that say this? If so (and I've never heard that rule and would like to see it) it's the job of the umpire to enforce it, no? Where is the outrage about the umpire not tossing him? There isn't any because that's not what it's about. If it's in the book, I doubt it says in the rule book that if the bat flip is perceived as disrespectful to the opposing player he should be tossed. Now I have seen players tossed for doing that, but it's been at the plate and in a conflict with the umpire, but that's usually more about the umpire and his interpretation of arguing calls or whatever he hides behind.
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If I shoot a guy for stealing a pack of gum he won't be stealing that pack of gum again, but I'd think the punishment was probably way out of proportion to the crime, unless maybe if I was born and raised in Saudia Arabia or Iraq, where they run a kids arm over with a big truck, crushing his arm bones to tiny bits, for stealing a loaf of bread. When I hear people call for beaning a guy, I often wonder how many people have been hit with a 90+ MPH pitch. This isn't a tap on the behind, this can cause real physical damage. Probably not a good punishment for a perceived disrespect that is done to a team that was already emotional from losing 7-1 at the time and seeing their pitcher serve up a meatball to a guy they chose to pitch to. Cause make no mistake, with the wild card so close and the Twins getting pummeled, they were already heated up. Then the HR happened after their strategy backfired which made it worse. The bat flip gave them an excuse to let all that rage out and focus attention on what the batter did as opposed to what the Indians just did to them when they are so close to the playoffs.
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and would you say the proper way to defend yourself against a perceived disrespectful bat flip was a 90+ MPH pitch to the body? :-)
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I believe I made it clear I didn't think it was disrespectful, but the batter himself may have figured that it was disrespectful. If he did figure that, should the disrespect he felt be discarded as irrational while, at the same time, a bat flip should definitely be considered disrespectful? Also, as far as the timing of the IBB, let's not pretend they walked him during a close game and/or early in the game. It was 7-1 and the Twins had one more half inning left to catch up. So, again, while I don't think the flipping of the bat or the intentional walk are disrespectful, the batter may have felt that.
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Someone throwing at a defenseless batter resulting in a broken wrist is the batter's problem because some team felt disrespect? That's another way of justifying it. And as far as the question, 'what's wrong with showing people a little respect' (in this case, the perceived disrespect Ramirez showed by flipping a bat), did the Twins show him respect by walking Kipnis in a blow out late in the game in order to face him? Some people might find that disrespectful, like the batter himself perhaps. I'm not sure either one is (I personally feel there are other strategic reasons to walk a guy and that flipping a bat is no biggy) but certainly if both are disrespectful one isn't moreso than the other. And both are within the rules to do. When the strategy doesn't work because your pitcher served up a meatball to a guy with an OPS under .650 and he crushes it, the fault lies with the execution of the pitch.
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I think ejecting a player for not breaking any rule in the MLB rulebook, while also not causing anyone physical harm, is a bad idea. I believe suspending him is equally a bad idea. I think giving that kind of power to umpires, some who already often already abuse their power, is a bad idea. I think ejecting a player for hurting the feelings of opposing players is a bad idea. And I doubt anyone would like it if some of our players did the same thing, which has been known to happen, and had those same penalties enforced.
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Without Dozier's great first half, I doubt we would have had a 55% winning percentage. I'm pretty sure with or without Sano's great second half performance, we'd still have a losing record in the 2nd half like we do now. :-)
- 23 replies
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- miguel sano
- kyle gibson
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You mean that isn't the right example to set for the kids?
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On top of that, it puts a runner on the bases. What if that guy ends up scoring or, better yet, what if he scores and the team wins by one run? Now how does that decision look? Now how would it look if all that happened tonight and we didn't make the playoff by one game.
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This debate is going on in two threads and there are people absolutely saying hit him. One said hit the leadoff hitter, don;t even wait for it to be Ramirez.
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Don't we also teach kids that violence isn't the answer when having conflicts with kids on the school ground? Reminds me of the time I was at a game and a fan, upset that another fan was swearing with his kid around, decides to sucker punch the swearing fan when he wasn't looking. The parent had problems with his kid hearing bad words but no problem with his kid seeing him assault a man? But hey, the guy who got punched got tossed from the game and the man who committed assault was allowed to stay in the game. So, who knows.
- 61 replies
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- mike pelfrey
- ricky nolasco
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Yeah and that's stupid too, but don't most of those come about when someone takes a cheap physical shot at someone first? Not something like I'm gonna fight Kane because he scored a 5th goal on me because my defender fell down and he shouldn't have even tried to score when that happened? In any event, your comparing contact sports to non-contact sports. I would also have an issue is a fight broke out at a chess match. Another strategic, but non-contact, game. :-)
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All we would need is 15 or so mind reading umpires to determine to motivation behind a player's supposed taunting.
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Most unwritten rules gives players the excuse to do stupid things that fans and people in the game will excuse. They absolutely cause more harm than good. Papelbon was pissed at Harper because he didn't defend him when Papelbon did a stupid thing. Papelbon waits for Harper to break a stupid unwritten rule and then goes off on him. And players and some fans excuse it. Unwritten rules give pitchers reason to throw 90+ MPH balls at pretty much defenseless batters. They give players reasons to fight each other. But mostly what they do is allow a player to deflect the blame off of who it should be on by saying look at how he showed me up when I served up a meatball HR to a guy I intentionally walked a guy to get to. Think about this. Pretty much all of the violence in the game is because some unwritten rule was broken. Many unwritten rules say 'don't make me feel bad when I fail at my job and the opponent made me pay for it' (like when a pitcher serves up a meatball and it gets crushed) because I will look for any reason to make it about your actions instead of about me throwing up a meatball.
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Yes, they should get mad at themselves for giving up the gopher ball. No doubt.
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All those other sports you refer to are contact sports. Baseball is not a contact sport. And, with the exception of hockey, the whole point of those other sports is to fight. And with hockey, checking is part of the game. So yeah, I think it's easy to say people can like those sports and can still stand behind the idea that violence in baseball shouldn't be allowed and is childish.
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sorry, I thought your response was focusing more on the moribund part of the poster's post, not the NL part. Both Houston and the Cubs didn't meet that criteria either.
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Maybe the people in the game have done them a disservice in that regard. Maybe that should change with the complete abandonment of a good chunk of the old school unwrittten rules.
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I was just pointing out more crazy stuff buddy.
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It's a kids game, but it's also their job, for which they get paid tons of money, and they are adults. Suggesting adults shouldn't act like adults and excusing/encouraging violence because they play a kids game as their profession seems very silly to me. Maybe their paychecks should be given to their parents to put into a trust?
- 61 replies
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- mike pelfrey
- ricky nolasco
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There are also supposed smart, rationale people also have no problem with Papelbon doing what he did to Harper :-)
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yes, besides those. sorry, I was told earlier this year on this site that teams only walk batters because they'd rather face the next guy, not to do anything strategic like set up double plays or force outs or anything else like that :-)
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or the team with the 3rd best record in baseball, the Cubs. :-)
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I love it when players and fans advocate throwing a 90 plus MPH pitch at player on purpose. Nothing childish about that.
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Exactly. Instead of saying we made a decision that backfired and our pitcher threw up a meatball, lets deflect it onto the batter who made us pay for the decision our manager made and lack of execution on the part of the pitcher. That kind of behavior isn't childish AT ALL.
