Twodogs

I was responding to the guy above me who said he was 1st in WAR. I wasn't at all trying to diminish what Dozier has accomplished.

2nd basemen who all ended the year 3rd in WAR for the season. Omar Vizquel is probably an All-Star due to his ability to be this consistent for so many years. I hope Dozier gets into that category but I don't think he is there yet. Brian Roberts 3rd in WAR in 2008 Mark Ellis 3rd in WAR in 2007 Brandon Inge 3rd WAR in 2006 Rafael Furcal 3rd in WAR in 2005 Omar Vizquel 3rd in WAR in 2004 Rafael Furcal 3rd in WAR in 2003 David Eckstein 3rd in WAR in 2002 How many of these guys are Elite "now" in your minds?

Dozier isn't even1st in WAR in the American League Central??

No its actually pretty comparable, because it is position specific. Position wise Dozier is a leader, so is Norris. This year he is 4th in WAR at a 2.1, 6th OPS, 6th OBP, 8th BA which by the way is at .265, 1st in doubles, 8th in Homeruns, and 3rd in RBI's and 2nd in runs scored. But Norris is probably relatively unknown by the average person out there. But he is really good, (right now), at his postion. So when you compare Dozier to the real Elite players such as Cabrera or Goldschmidt then everyone says but as a second baseman he is elite, then my arguement with Norris will hold water, but if you say Norris is a good player at his postion, but not elite, then that is what I am trying to say about Dozier.

If you are comparing Brian Dozier to Ernie Banks then last year he would have hit .295 with 44 homeruns and 117 RBI's And the fact of the matter is that Dozier had 707 plate appearances last year and Banks only had 646 PA's in his 2nd real year of baseball. Do you really think Dozier will end up with 512 Hr's and 1600 RBI's?? Dang, I sure hope so. But again the article was really about whether or not the contract was a good one or not, and I think it was a great signing. But Dozier is no Ernie Banks, yet at least.

Well it just depends on your opinion of Elite? Derek Norris is ranked 4th in all of baseball in WAR, he has the most at bats of any catcher in all of baseball and has a .250 career batting average which by the way is 5 points higher than Dozier's career batting average. Does this guy fit into the Elite category? I mean when I consider Elite players, I think of the guys that people will remember, will anyone remember who Derek Norris is, say like 15 years from now?

Yeah, I get that the batting average isn't everything, and I said that he is great and probably should be an All-Star. But how many "ELITE" players do we talk about in real life that hit .265, as a career high nonetheless. I mean Elite players in my mind are guys like Tony Gwynn, Kirby Puckett, Rod Carew, George Brett, Barry Bonds, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Goldschmidt, etc........ If any of those guys hit .265 you'd say they are having below average years or some would come on here and say "They're done!" Just like we hear about Mauer and stuff like that. Is he one of the best Twins players, yes, is he one of the better 2nd basemen in baseball right now, yes. To me however, that doesn't make him Elite. Just because he is one of the better at his position doesn't mean much to me when considering what is and what isn't elite. Elite to me means that he is going to get to Superstar status, such as Kirby was. Even when the Twins were crummy, everyone who followed baseball across the country knew who Kirby was and even many people who could care less about baseball knew who Kirby was and it wasn't because he hit .265 Again, Dozier is doing really well and he seems to continue to improve so maybe one day he will in my opinion become Elite, but I don't think he is there yet. He is however, near and dear to Twins fans, including myself, and they will always see things through rose colored glasses just a little bit when considering one of their best players. But go to some random stadium anywhere in the U.S and ask some random fans who they think are the top 5 "Elite" players in the game and I'd bet dollars to donuts that not many of them will name Brian Dozier, that is unless you were sitting in left at Target Field. Again don't get me wrong, as a Twins fan I hope he hits 20 - 25 homeruns and continues to lead the league in scoring runs and continues to play solid D. I hope he helps to continue to lead the Twins to one of their first seasons above .500 in a long time. I just don't think he is considered ELITE yet.

Dozier is doing great, but elite status?? I mean he is hitting like .265, Mauer the guy everyone talks about is washed up and done is hitting about 5 points lower is all. I mean could you imagine if Mauer upped his average to .275 and people started talking about him approaching elite status? I think he is All-Star Caliber. I think he could potentially continue to improve over the next 3 - 4 years and even be better, but I don't think he is elite as of yet. He has nice pop, he plays solid defense, and he is one of the best sticks on the Twins right now, but that doesn't equate to elite in my books.

They will be tied for 1st after tomorrow's game.

Hey I'm just sayin' the fork thing seemed to work for Hunter and chances are that Mauer will end up on the DL anyway at some point, I say we chase him around and stick that fork in him, see if he can get a little better production from that.

Sooooo. Let me get this straight, you want to pay 90 percent of his 50 million so that he can go and play for another team, then you want to rush some youngster up here so that he can get his clock started early and even if that kid turns out to be ok, it wont be for 2 - 3 years, that seems to be the norm for starting pitchers without dynamic stuff, (98 -101) type of stuff. So by the time the kids that you want up here start to get good then the Twins would need to be paying them big money too?? Doesn't make a lot of sense. In his last 4 games, including yesterday, he has pitched 19.7 innings, with a 3.2 era a 1.42 whip, 21 K's and 4 walks. Not too bad, oh and he had 3 wins in that span. 1.42 whip not the greatest but has proven to miss some bats so that helps that out.

I wonder if we can stick a fork in Mauer, you think he would hit .318 after getting a fork stuck in him??

In my opinion the Twins have been playing really well as a team, however, they don't seem to really have any one guy who is a big time All-Star. You know they don't have any regular hitting .330 or any guy with 15 Hrs etc... But they have a bunch of guys that are hitting .250 - .280 and are being really productive with their at bats and their plays in the field. They seem to be playing really well as a team.

Yeah, I don't think they replace ankle ligaments, at least not with elbow ones. Ha ha, well that is a good thing ankle should be temporary

I really hope Nolasco doesn't need Tommy John, by the time he would come back it will be about the end of his contract. Kinda like Pelf.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, didn't Milone get sent down when Nolasco came back?

Don't say stuff like that in prison. Just letting you know.

Im looking up in the sky for Cows and pigs and stuff but I dont see any. Yeah when was the last time we could say the Twins are in first?

This brings me back to the days of Ryan Restovich, Buck Buchannon, et al. Man it seemed like the Twins had a crap load of guys coming up. Getting Ryan Howard would be really kinda stupid, not saying his power wouldn't help, but I feel that the Twins need to go after relief arms to strengthen the Bullpen. Imagine if the Twins could bring back the days of JC Romero, Juan Rincon, Latroy Hawkins leading up to Eddie Guardado. I think they should target one or two of these kids to potentially trade and get a couple of hard throwing arms for the bullpen. Something that can get them from when Nolasco or Pelfrey only goes 5 1/3 to the 9th for Perkins. That is what will get the Twins all the way into the playoffs.

Maybe it was a combination of lack of confidence/immaturity/Gardenslug. Maybe just becoming a little more mature has helped him increase his confidence in things that are a little bit more controllable such as defense and as a person starts to succeed in one area you hope that some of that success can spill over into another area such as hitting?

I know, 5 - 1 huh??

In my defending of teams with Aces, I'm not saying that you absolutely need one. But if I had my choice, I'd get one. Even back in '87, the Twins had 2 really good pitchers, Blyleven had Ace like seasons, and maybe even Ace like numbers at the end of his career, he wasn't always Ace like, but he was pretty damn good. Viola was Ace like for a number of years from the mid 80's till early 90's. After those two they had Straker??? I mean, if it wasn't for the two really good pitchers the Twins had, they wouldn't have even been there let alone WS champs.

But they lost. To SF who had an ACE?

Naw thats fine. I just thought you were piling on. That's why I gave an explanation to when I went back at ya.

Hrbowski, on 25 May 2015 - 12:01 PM, said: Justin Morneau. I second that idea. What is up with Morneau? He gets another concussion from diving for a ball? Dang he must have really racked his brains playing hockey back in the day.