diehardtwinsfan

I'd note to look at 2015... largely the same team. One played meaningful games into September. One didn't. There's enough talent on the team where being in contention is possible. Yes, it's unlikely. That's why we are talking about trading Dozier. Keep in mind when Johan was traded, these same discussions were going on. Turns out that trading him was the wrong call. We could have used him. Not saying this is that same team, but I am saying that it is possible we end up in the same place, especially if we don't take value for Dozier.

Agree there. With the top pick, we can get more talent throughout the draft by being smart about which of those 3/4 guys we pick. I personally hope for a Harper type, but if not, then this is probably how I play it.

To address the 1st point, if you cannot see the difference between responding to a message and attacking a messenger, I cannot help you. People rarely respond well when their content of their message is ignored yet their person is attacked. It just doesn't work. If you don't like a person's content, respond to that, ignore it, whatever. But if you want to refer to said person's content as 'sad', 'boring', or some other adjective, expect some sort of action. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that is what ownership has asked we do. The best way to ensure thoughtful, intelligent discussion is to make sure that the conversation does not devolve into bickering. I would also note that there are plenty of policy violations by non-moderators that result in sentences being edited and removed and no points assigned. That's honestly very typical, especially with newer posters, who aren't as familiar with the rules. It's also accompanied by a PM letting them know why and asking them read the comments policy. What happens next is often times what dictates future responses... I cannot emphasize that enough. As for us, we do self police, and if one of us crosses the line, the others will let him/her know. Glunn also steps in if needed.

yeah, I don't see why the Dodgers would want Gibson. He's a good option for a rebound year, but not a guy a contending team wants to roll the dice with. They might have interest in Santana. If LA was willing to accept De Leon and Stewart as the main pieces for Dozier, picking up Santana and sending two more that way, it may work. Just spitballing.... haven't looked at FV or anything like that. Dozer, Santana, perhaps a bullpen arm as well. De Leon, Alvarez, Stewart, Verdugo, and Ruiz. Perhaps in this scenario we have to take Kazmir's contract... not sure. I've got to think there's a way to make this work.

I know De Leon has some question marks, but Joe Mays if he's lucky kind of question marks?

I'm guessing the deadline isn't tomorrow... just sayin...

I'd argue this is a flaw of WAR in that it doesn't adjust for the real value that shut down starting pitching brings. I get that they show up once every 5 days, but to have someone that (once every 5 days) will essentially carry a team on his shoulder is impressive. I get that SPs have a bad day from time to time. But I think people fail to understand just how valuable top end SPs are. Even Trout cannot carry a team on his shoulders once every 5 days, and while once and a while he can single handedly win a game, that doesn't happen 40 games a season. I'm not saying a guy like Kershaw will do that 40 games a season, but he will do it far more than a guy like Trout. You can only hope that Trout does it when Kershaw isn't pitching or when Kershaw has a bad game... but a guy like Kershaw is priceless. My point is this: an ace brings far more than 3 extra wins, and I think WAR is flawed for that reason. It undervalues starting pitching. As to your conclusion... I'm 100% with you. Trade Dozier if it makes sense... and making sense implies getting some SP options we don't have now.

Pretty sure that statement is worth about 100 points... just sayin...

ICQ is the record player of instant messaging.

You youngins don't use ICQ anymore?

Well, I was born in Fairbault, but I spent of most of my childhood in the Cleveland area and my adult life in Indiana as well as the Chicago area. I currently live in Indianapolis. My parents were Twins fans (until Cleveland got good in the 90s, at which point they were suddenly die hard Indians fans.. who knew... but Indians fans are what you see in the dictionary under the term 'fair weather' so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it rubbed off on them). I first started paying attention to baseball in 87. I was an avid baseball card collector and started following some kid name Knoblauch right after he got taken in the 1st round. He became my favorite player once Gary Gaetti left MN. I've been a Twins fan through it all. As for age, I'm in my 30s for a bit longer... not much though. As for career, I'm a field engineer for Microsoft. I specialize in IT infrastructure and security. I get the luxury of traveling all over the country to work with customers on using our products. It's a job that I really enjoy. I also came over from BYTO.

My issue here is that they haven't chosen to use it "only to defend themselves." Razing farms, starving people, destroying peoples homes so you can build more of your own... I don't buy that this is only in self defense. It's not. They are doing it because they can. The world is upset about this and rightfully so. It's wrong. Period. The Jews were evicted from that land in 70 AD by the Roman empire. They returned almost 1900 years later. If they want to buy that land and build their cities, by all means do so. But forcibly evicting its inhabitants is not self defense. Have I said it is all their fault? I've made it rather clear that there are radicals on both sides. I think we'd be wise to stay out. That's what I think. We become the bad guy when we take a side, especially one that we all know stinks just as bad as the other. We take that side for an agenda, not for right and wrong. [quote name="TheLeviathan" post="570272" timestamp="1483207051" Why isn't the intractable, violent side the one we're focused on? Because we have such low expectations for them that we've just given up?We focus plenty on the 'violent side' in this culture. Goodness, just listen to all the anti-islam stuff out there right now. It's not like they are getting a free pass either. I'm against the whole 'the enemy of enemy must be my friend' idea that couples with the blatant hypocrisy that looks the other way when my friend does something bad.

I highly doubt that the Twins haven't told Friedman to put up or shut up. Using the press is just as much for the fans as it is for the Dodgers. It also makes it really hard for Falvey and company to come back and take JDL straight up for Dozier when they said they would not.

I'm failing to see how Israel is an afflicted group here. They have all the power. They have nukes. They have a first rate military and first rate infrastructure. The only Arab nations with even a quasi-decent military are the ones that wouldn't attack them, and even then Israel is in far better condition than the Saudi's. Yeah, plenty of people hate them. I'm not arguing that. But that's also a 5000 year old family feud. There's a reason the founding fathers wanted to avoid entangling alliances, and this is it... even if it wasn't a remote possibliity when they wrote the constitution.

Both De Leon and Stewart have the SSS thing going with their PCL time. I'm not saying these are bad prospects, but we've all seen plenty of guys put up gaudy K/9 rates in the minors and never amount to much in the majors.

Staumont isn't a bad prospect. He needs more time. Yes, he's got control issues. He's also played at AA making him a reasonable bet to start in Rochester. He would hardly be the only arm acquired in that scenario either, which is by far the bigger issue here. But to the other point, we need pitching and lots of it. Some will pan out, some won't. There's a ton more risk when acquiring pitching. That's the nature of pitching prospects. I wouldn't do JDL for Dozier straight up for that reason alone. Not even sure I'd do JDL and Stewart for Dozier straight up for that reason alone. While both will pitch in the majors in 2017, neither are sure thing impacts beyond that and both have serious reasons for concern. I need more. Now if LA came at me with JDL, Stewart, Alvarez, I'd do it. If they said JDL, Stewart, Ruiz, and another 10-20 prospect (especially a P, SS, or CF), I'd probably do it. But I do have very bad memories of that Santana trade where a bunch of quantity was put in place of quality. There was only one potential quality piece to that trade, and he didn't live up to the potential.

I was looking at another post where their projected value at 2B was worst in the league. For a team with a reasonable shot at contending, replacing a worst in the league position with a best in the league position would be a pretty big bump.

If any other country did what Israel has done to Palestine, it would be called ethnic cleansing. I do not see how they get a free pass while Palestine does not, because there are very radical movements within Israel that want to extinguish Islam, and too many of those people are in charge. You're talking about a nation that is taking by force land that they do not own while relocating it's occupants to caged areas in the west bank and Gaza strip. They also, I might add, have had no problems blockading food and medical shipments to said areas, destroying the crops of local farmers, and massacring civilians. Put yourself in their shoes for a second and ask how you'd handle that. I pretty much guarantee that you and most of this nation would be fighting back too. As for 'facts and history,' I'd look at that much more closely too. There is no question in this country of a pro-Israel lobby in the Government as well as the US Media, where most of that information comes from. I'm not going to pretend that Palestine is made up of a bunch of innocent victims (they aren't), but I'm not going to pretend that Israel is made up of nothing but good people either who want to compromise (they don't). War is all about painting the other side as evil and hiding ones own sins. Rarely in reality is it ever a true conflict between good and evil. The foundation for any war is almost always a lie. Something does stink. This is a 5000 year old family feud which we are somehow in the middle of, and that has for more to do with where one of those sides stands with our own agenda than it does right and wrong, willingness to compromise, etc. Right now, this country is a part of the problem, not a part of any workable solution.

How in the world is Kansas City not a potential option here? Their system has thinned out no doubt, but for a team that gave up 712 runs last season, their porblem was the ability to score netting them a .500 record a year after winning the WS. 2B is a gaping hole for them both offensively and defensively. They need to win now. I would think, just looking at their system, that they could get this done in some way. Their top prospect (Josh Staumont) has top of the rotation potential and should be knocking on the door next year some time. Yeah, he's not opening day 2017 ready, but Matt Strahm may be as he spent some time in the major leagues this season. If those arms aren't appealing, perhaps you could get a 3rd team involved using Hunter Dozier and potentially some of our other chips instead. There's more risk there, but there's still quite a bit of talent.

I don't think anyone doubts what Santana would net... We should get someone in the top 100, and probably someone in the top 150... Though I do think that this is largely on hold pending the Dozier trade. If we walked away with Stewart/De Leon, that's two options for the rotation right now. Suddenly Santana and Santiago are much more expendable.

So personally, I think this De Leon/Dozier straight up thing is really a poor conclusion drawn from LEN III's article. Neal didn't say that at all, he said they weren't happy with the deal that De Leon anchored. Big difference. The fact that the national media has jumped on this hasn't helped much either. My guess right now is that it is a De Leon/Stewart deal, which I don't mind, but I do agree that we need something else. I'd have to think they have a few guys in the 10-20 range that could make that work... I don't know.

I might consider Urias straight up...

I thought Stewart had a good changeup as well.

Do the Royals think they are out of it next season? I'd think BD was cheap enough to get them interested, especially given the upgrade. I could see them trying for one more ring.

yeah, plenty of radicals on both sides in this debate. That's the problem.