tobi0040

That is a good point. You could have a guy with defensive flexibility like Escobar back up CF (but who could hit better). You could open the door for a nice platoon at 3B, LR, or RF. For example, if you had a left handed hitter with good splits against righties, he could platoon with Plouffe at 3B, with the DH or LF, etc.

Nobody is writing off AB's as much as seeing no real difference in the choices. Bartlett's OPS is basically the same as our choices. The Rays had Matt Joyce (.747 OPS), David Dejesus (.741 OPS), and Sean Rodriguez (.704 OPS) on their bench. Their backup catcher had an OPS of .714 as well. I don't think it is a philosophical difference between the teams or the fans for that matter, they have better options because they have better players.

If Hicks hits .250-.275 he can definitely play in LF or RF. I put his OBP around .330 to .350 and his OPS around .720-.750. Probably about average for that spot and that would make him about the best defensive OF in the league for a corner spot. Not bad for a guy under control for a long time.

This logic assumes Bartlett over Presley or Parmelee is costing us wins. They all have the same career OPS. If Bartlett gets reps over Pedro you lose a little on defense and gain on offense. Can Bartlett not play LF or 1B? And we are talking about very little difference if any, over 100 AB's.

Unfortunately one of the things an SS does is bat. Pedro has a career OPS of .601. Bartlett's career OPS is .702 and he has 7 seasons with a higher OPS than Pedro. Even in his 2011 "what happened to Bartlett" season, his OPS was still higher than Pedro's.

I think we need to take a realistic look at the players we cut or have in AAA. Presley .715 OPS (Outfielder) Mastro .607 OPS (Outfielder) Parmelee .717 OPS (OF/1B) Bartlett's career OPS is .702 and he is a short stop. I understand he has rust he needs to shake off, but can we honestly say any of those three guys has a better chance than Bartlett to be a starter on this team in July of this year or next year? I would argue Bartett has more upside, even at 34 years old. Carroll played until he was 38-39 and Bartlett only needs to get back to 80-90% of the years he up up a .879 or .760 OPS. If he gets back to his career mark he is easily the best option we have at SS right now. Here is what I think the writing on the wall suggests. In May or June, Bartlett will take over for Pedro Florimon at SS and Mastro will be on the club as the 4th OF (Florimon DFA or in AAA). In any event, I am convinced Presley, Mastro, or Parmelee are not starters on the 2015 team so position flexibility is really not all that important to me this April. I find it refreshing that we are clearing our roster of guys that may add depth this year but who we know are not part of the future. And we have roster space to pick up cast offs who may click from another organization. While a long shot, I think we know what we have with the guys we have cut (Worley, Diamond, Parmelee, Presley, etc.)

I think the Twins made the right call with Hicks here and you almost wonder if cutting Presley wasn't done to take pressure off Hicks a little bit. In any event, I think he is a guy that will walk 7-8% of the time, given 500 AB's should hit 12-15 HR's, and has plus range and a plus arm in CF. Given that, he only needs to hit about .250 or .260 to have an OPS north of .700. That is a pretty good CF. One slight correction to the write up. I remembered Hicks had a lot more velocity than 90 as a pitcher. I looked and his BA write up said he was in the 92-94 range and touched 97. 14. Minnesota Twins Aaron Hicks, of, Wilson HS, Long Beach, Calif. B-T: B-R. Ht.: 6-2. Wt.: 175. Age: 18. Scouting Report A magnet for scouts since his sophomore season, Hicks is the finest prep outfielder/pitcher prospect in the greater Los Angeles area since Daryl Strawberry in the early 1980s. He most resembles Adam Jones, who was a first-round talent as both an outfielder and pitcher. As an outfielder, Hicks projects as a five-tool player, and his arm grades out to near 80 on the scouting scale. With his plus speed (6.6 seconds over 60 yards), Hicks is a daring and aggressive baserunner. His speed, easy range and arm mean Hicks will begin his career as a center fielder. Prior to the 2008 season, many scouts had reservations about his hitting ability. A switch-hitter, he's shown improvement by lowering his hands. His hitting mechanics and lightning reflexes permit scouts who believe in him to project him as an above-average hitter with above-average power. As a pitcher, Hicks' fastball sits in the 92-94 mph range, and in a mid-May start he was at 94-97. His curveball shows wicked movement and he adds a hard cutter and a change. Clubs were split on whether Hicks would pitch or hit, but either way, he's expected to go in the middle of the first round.

I would agree if Bartlett was taking at bats away from a good young player. But he is not. Pedro is not a starting shortstop in this league, let alone one on a good team

The flip side is, does Bartlett need to return to the level of play he was once at to be better than Pedro Florimon? I don't think he does, he has five years under his belt that I don't think Pedro Florimon is capable of (.690 - .870 OPS). Even at 34, I honestly believe he could be our starting SS next year. That is not necessarily a good thing, but given the options can we rule it out? I agree that he is here to pressure Pedro and take over if need be. Big picture, in 2014 the SS decision should not have come down to Bartlett/Florimon. Levi Michael has done exactly nothing since he was drafted and we have not signed a FA or international FA to add to the pipeline.

Doesn't this line of thinking imply that we would win more games with Presley over Bartlett? It is not like Gardy is taking Bartlett over an actual good player (probably not Gardy's choice anyhow). If one of the two will contribute to wins it would be Bartlett in my eyes, as he has a track record, therefore potential upside. In reality, this roster move is not going to change the outcome of this team and I don't think that is on Gardy.

He was at least a league average ss in 2006 to 2008 and 2010. I actually think he has better odds of starting next year than parmelee or pressley did. or even florimon. even at 35 and that is sad.

I can't argue with that. Arcia is definitely a stater on a 2015 team. Hicks is either going to be good enough for a corner spot, or traded. But playing him will help us find out which of those two makes the most sense.

I agree with that 100%

I think it is difficult, if not impossible to separate the two. We have private defense companies because they can produce better weapons than the governemnt would be capable of producing. For example, give Uncle Sam $10 billion dollars to produce a new line of bombers and give the same amount to Boeing. I think we can all agree that Boeing would produce a product that is better capable of defending our country. So I believe the salary of the Boeing employee is not the same to the salary of a Twins employee. The broader point is related to the Twins and this thead about the Forbes value. I don't think the it is a business argument, therefore they can do what they want really works. They produce baseball games and T-shirts. Not medical research or national defense. Those are the only companies that get anywhere near the type of public funding the Twins get. So I think they should be accountable for getting a stadium and not putting players on the field in 2012 and 2013. I will drop this thread as well.

I can't argue about the boondoggle part, but I would argue having no national defense versus no baseball has alternative negative consequences. In one case, we watch another sport. In the other this thread is in German.

Do you not see a distinction between national defense and baseball?

Mall of America received a $250M tax break on a $1.5 billion dollar project (16% versus 66%). That was a break on future property taxes if conditions were met, versus the Twins being handed $300M. These types of deals are structured to the point where future property taxes go up, not down. So a break doens't really exist. I would guess Best Buys is similar to Targets, peanuts. But ultimately I agree. They have not been accountable. They are unwilling to pay a market price for certain players and did nothing in 2012 or 2013 to rebuild.

Can you give one example of a Minnesota tax payer funding $100M or more of a business project? That represents 2/3 of the total funds? Keep in mind I am asking for one example that represents 1/3 of what the Twins got. The only one I can think of is the Mayo clinic or another hospital, but that is certainly more complex as a place like the Mayo clinic provides a public good and is involved with medical research. Here is one that is often cited. Brooklyn Park gave up to $5M for Target to expand their HQ there. This was a gift over multiple years. Target funded the contruction themselves and had a series of conditions they needed to meet in order to get those funds. I can assure you very few have been met. Do you really think this is on the same level? The Twins had no conditions on the $300M they received. http://www.startribune.com/local/north/204311811.html

I don't think a team like the Twins can be compared to 3M, Medtronic, or Target. Taxpayers did not, without a vote, provide $300m in funding for any of these companies. You may get a suburb that offers limited tax increment financing. But I have seen some of these contracts, they typically amount to under $2m dollars over a span of a few years and have very strict covenants. For example, if you spend x million on construction and have x salaries that make over $50K a year by x date, you can get a short term tax break. So I think it gets more complicated than "they are a business and can do what they want". What the answer is I am not sure, but I don't like the comparison.

I agree. I rent out a second home. Last year I made about $200 on a cash flow basis. Home prices went up 10-12% and I could sell the house for $20k more than I could have a year prior. Or walk into a bank and get a loan for $20K I could not have received a year prior. The value of the team was $178M in 2005. The twins have made about $179M in profits since then and invested about $150M into the stadium. I have them ahead about $550M in 8 years ($179M profits - $150M investments in the stadium + 522M in value change). I am using the recent $700M value from Bloomberg, which added about $130M to each team to account for the new cable deal. The value of the team is what bankers or investors would go off when wanting to purchase a share of the team or secure financing. No name calling, just facts. The Forbes values are typically a combination of comparable sales , operating income, and year over year increases in value. The Dodgers were recently sold for over $2B dollars for example. Granted a bigger market, but a $700M valuation for this team seems reasonable. http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/morning_roundup/2013/10/minnesota-twins-value-700-million.html http://www.forbes.com/teams/minnesota-twins/

I could not agree more. No investment in free agents (MLB or MLB ready international) from 2012 and 2013 is the major reason why our win totals have been in the 60's two years in a row and are likely to just break that this year. Even still, free agents at positions where we have holes are and were available (Drew, Morales, and Cruz) but we did not want to pay a market rate. If you go back to 2011, our prospects in the top 100 were Gibson #34(projected 2 or 3 starter), Hicks #45 (still a few years away), Sano #60 (17 years old), and Benson #100. At a time when you win 65 games, are going to lose a ton of veterans and have next to nothing coming up, the bargain bin and wait for prospects strategy was not the appropriate. The front office should be accountable for that.

I don't buy it either. Cruz signed for 8m. Drew and Moralez are unsigned. Many other guys signed for cheap. AJ would rather play for Boston, okay.what about the rest of these guys?

Hicks .192 average, .259 obp. .338 slugging. .597 ops. Revere. .285 average. .324 obp. .330 slugging. .654 ops. So Hicks needs to hit about .225 with a few additional extra base hits this year. you can take the under if you want

Hicks totally blew it all last year. His average was .192 and OBP was .259, yet his OPS was only 50 basis points less than Revere's career average. Certainly you will want to reconsider that.