Jham
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Everything posted by Jham
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I'm not crediting Ryan with a good or bad trade. I'm crediting him for trying. For many many seasons we've been drafting and acquiring low risk low reward guys and found them riskier than anticipated with predictably poor results. I'll give the organization credit for switching it up and going after power arms. You can blame Ryan for the fact that May and Meyer are in the organization, but not for their individual failures to leap the near ground level hurtles required to make the team.
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That's certainly one view, and I'm sure there is some truth to it for some pitchers. Some pitchers need to get thrown to the flames for them to figure out what works and doesn't against big league guys, get jitters out, or otherwise develop. For each player there will be a "too soon" line. In many cases, it probably doesn't even matter, either they're good enough or not. I just don't think the difference in having rookies break with the team vs. come up in May or June is significant in player development or even team performance. Maybe there was a Rick Anderson effect, but it seems like we may have given up on guys like Breslow, Neshek, Worley, Liriano too soon and not received good or any value for those guys because they weren't seen as part of the future. I think this has hurt us way more than failing to get guys to the majors sooner. I don't think I've ever thought, "If ONLY we'd have gotten so and so up sooner, we could have traded Player X, or we would have won so many more games." Last time I thought that was Liriano as a rookie, and Johan not starting in the playoffs. In my opinion, Gibson and May could have probably used more seasoning prior to their call ups, but I don't blame the FO for bringing them up and getting them some action during lost seasons or in Gibson's case, to try to energize the team and fan base. Similarly, I can't say that those who think the struggles will help our young guys are categorically wrong. But if you use the excuse that it's better to let guys struggle in the majors, then calling up a young player will ALWAYS be the right move whether they are met with success or failure.
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Developing prospects isn't a science. Not every move is going to pay off, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. If Meyer is never an ace, he was at least, at one time, a potential ace. Aces are pretty rare, getting even a potential ace for a player like Span was a pretty decent deal. I suspect both Meyer and May will be up soon enough. I want to see them play and play well, but don't blame Terry Ryan for the fact that Meyer still doesn't have a repeatable delivery and May choked in his big audition. Meyer and May just have to pitch better. They were given their chances, even last year. That's on them.
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http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/209752351.html Sounds like Terry Ryan, who actually watched Gibson pitch and develop pretty much called his early struggles.
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A strong contingent of scouts that actually watched Gibson pitch in the minor leagues said that he wasn't ready to pitch in the bigs. I think the term TR used was "when we call him up, we want him up for good." Gibson was close to abysmal his first year. He worked on some things, he got better. Posters said that May had nothing to prove in AAA. He didn't look Major League ready to me. I'm not sure struggling through 2-4 inning outings makes a pitcher better than pitching your full pitch count against line ups that allow you to work on weaknesses and not just having to rely on your strengths just to get through the line up one time. It certainly seemed that when Gibson and May were called up, it was because of fan pressure and not sound evaluation. The Twins have shown the willingness to fast track guys who can actually perform at the big league level. All I'm saying is that I think there is a strong argument that players develop better in a farm system with lots of individual coaching than trying to learn on the Major League level with pressure and expectation. Certainly there are arguments the other way as well.
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I would think there'd be a strong argument that we actually brought Gibson and May up too soon, not too late.
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In reality, he wasn't really lights out when he was healthy half a decade ago.
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If we're looking long term, why are we so concerned about May getting some extra work in before his absolutely inevitable call up in a month or two?
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Arcia is my favorite player on the team. He has the potential to be an All-Star. I think he actually has the athleticism to be an adequate defensive outfielder. He is a fiery, passionate player. He plays extremely hard and seems to want to win and get his teammates fired up. Perhaps his struggles at the plate is that he tries TOO hard. He gets antsy in big spots (his 3-0 count record is infamous). But if our biggest criticism is that he plays too hard, tries too hard, and swings too hard, I can live with that. He'll calm himself and his swing down as he gains more experience. Reminds me a bit of Carlos Gomez as far as his mental approach to the game. He has an enthusiasm for the game that seems to be contagious. He just needs to harness it all in. It took Go-Go years to do. Arcia can be a better hitter than Gomez.
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I guess we just disagree on how important it is to get the Tonkin's of the world major league innings over keeping roster guys like Stauffer and maybe Pelfrey. I'm not sure one is better than the other. Given the fact that I don't have a ton of confidence in one over the other, I'd go with the option that still allows me to change over and go with option B if option A fails. The other options couldn't beat out Caleb Thielbar or Lester Oliveras for a call-up last year. So I lean a little more toward option A. If we get to June and our rotation is Hughes, Santana, Nolasco, Gibson, and May and our pen features Graham, Stauffer, Milone, Pelfrey and Alex Meyer and we've fielded calls or traded Duensing will you be mad?
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Also, if Tonkin had looked remotely reliable in his several opportunities with the big league club, we probably don't even sign Stauffer who, by the way, wouldn't have be the first low-risk bull pen guy to come in on a one-year deal and earn an extension if that should happen. If he's awful, trade him, release him, send him back to the NL and give someone else a shot. It's harder for me to justify a spot for Pelfrey other than that he's apparently healthy, and he's been successful during spring training, but I understand people wanting to give him a limited shot before eating his salary, and dumping him for nothing in order to promote___________ . To be honest, I'm far more worried about Perkins closing out games than I am about the net difference between losing Pelfrey and blocking Tonkin.
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We pay scouts and managers to tell us when guys are ready and if they believe their minor league success will translate to big league success. I agree, there are points when you need to see what you've got, but as of now, we're tied for first place. If this season is another Jesse Crain-wreck, we'll have plenty of time to see prospect, fringe prospect, and AAAA all-stars alike. In recent memory, Fien and before him Burton were a couple of guys who made Twins games worth watching past the 5th inning. I'm not saying that Achter or Tonkin, etc. will never be pieces. I'm saying that I'm not going to dump a roster guy like Stauffer to make sure they get big league innings just because one of them might be the next Tony Swarzak.
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We pay scouts and managers to tell us when guys are ready and if they believe their minor league success will translate to big league success. I agree, there are points when you need to see what you've got, but as of now, we're tied for first place. If this season is another Jesse Crain-wreck, we'll have plenty of time to see prospect, fringe prospect, and AAAA all-stars alike. In recent memory, Fien and before him Burton were a couple of guys who made Twins games worth watching past the 5th inning. I'm not saying that Achter or Tonkin, etc. will never be pieces. I'm saying that I'm not going to dump a roster guy like Stauffer to make sure they get big league innings just because one of them might be the next Tony Swarzak.
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Maybe I should have put "prospects" in quotes, as the names I'm seeing thrown around as potential bull pen arms, other than Reed and Burdi, are maybe not so prospecty. These guys almost always fail in the big leagues, but are occasionally used to fill in trade gaps. But it's easier to a sell a not so prospecty guy as a prospect if you can tell your trade partner that "He'd be good in the Bigs, but we don't have room", as opposed to "We've proven conclusively that he has no big league future, because we tried him."
- 85 replies
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Still disagree. I think the worse worst thing that can happen is that we formulate roster decisions that impact the future/present roster based on whoever gets hot during spring training. Look at the guys hitting during the 6th through 9th innings when most of these relievers are getting action and tell me that you would feel comfortable projecting season-long success based on those results. We have been down this road before. "We don't need Span or Revere or Alex Pressley because Hicks is having a great spring!" I remember when people were saying that Slama was going to be a future set-up man. Imagine if we would have rolled with him instead of signing say Casey Fien. When we signed Neshek and Breslow, it turned few heads, and even fewer when they walked. Maybe we paid a bit for giving up on them too early and assuming we had better options on the farm. Can we please play one regular season game before we turn this season into yet another rolling audition of failed prospects eliminating whatever trade value they might have and start giving away rostered players for nothing?
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I think it's a bit early to give up on Stauffer. He's a somewhat proven commodity, he actually has a bit of upside, and oh yeah, we haven't played a single game yet. I'm guessing we'll have to use a number of guys this year as arms become tired, go through slumps, get hot, etc. Having guys in AAA with options isn't a bad thing.
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To be honest, I thought we maybe performed over our heads last year. I think that easily could have been a 100 loss season without guys like Santana, Arcia, and Vargas giving our whole team a spark and carrying us for several weeks. Obviously Dozier had a career year, as did Hughes. Some of these guys are due to regress big time. However, I think E. Santana, and Gibson are as competitive as they come, and I could see those 2 carrying the staff this year. Perk and Fien have some fire in the pen, and I think Pelfrey could has that in him if he could only get some guys out... We had a few guys playing hard for spots and for pride last year. We had a few playing to collect checks. I'm looking forward to a year where hopefully, finally, the guys playing hard will be our most prominent players. Those few weeks where Arcia carried the team last year and raised everyone else's play made more excited about the future of the team than almost anything I'd seen the previous 5 seasons. Of course, he promptly broke his ankle when our "leader" Plouffe whiffed on a bunt and left Arcia in a pickle... Vargas and Sano can't stand losing batting practice. Santana runs hard every ball. It seems like the culture is changing. Gardenhire seemed to recognize that. Moli's inherited some decent young players. Hopefully he feeds that fire rather than squelching it. If we can win a few games, the vets will reengage. Crucial season, imo. Could go either way.
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Can't we figure it out once we're 12 games back? Which has been closer to May than September of late... Seems like that would give plenty of time to experiment, check guys out, and make decisions for the future. Unless of course the players we're fielding screw up and win too many games.
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Also, Santana has a ton of doubters with some basis given his BABIP last year. Personally, I think they both pass the eye test as major league hitters, they swing hard, and are not intimidated which are signs that they see the ball well. Not only is it possible that Boxton or Rosario will be up this summer, it is also possible that Polanco (who is starting to fill out and look like a serious player with HR ability) could be up NEXT summer. We're not good enough to keep one of better players on the bench in favor of one of our worst.
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
Again, this seems more based on perception or potential than anything. Molitor hasn't managed one regular season game yet. I'm not so much saying we have a culture of losing, so much as saying human nature plays a role. Santana is a perfect example of someone who works hard and is earning his chance. Same with Escobar. Hicks? Schaeffer? Blue-chippers with a history of failure and more failure? Hicks and Schaeffer both seem to be working hard now that their livlihood and playing time is at risk. So hopefully they'll push each other (and Buxton/Rosario will push them both). I would expect there may well be a change of Santana to short and Buxton/Rosario to center at some point THIS year. I guess I just don't see the point in fielding a worse team to begin the season when all the teams are tied in the standings with the assumption that we'll be out of it by June just to get Santana more reps at short in April and May, when we have the rest of the season, all off-season, and Polanco and Gordon not all that far off. Then again, when we're 12 out of it in June and Escobar is batting .234 I'll probably say you were right.- 38 replies
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
I am fine with building, just not perpetual rebuilding. I just don't think it's a good model to play guys based on "what ifs" or strictly potential if you've got suitable proven options available. I think a lack of competition at the position mixed with losing a lot of games is dangerous combination regarding development of young players. I think our player development has been stunted by a lack of hard work and competition more than a lack of experience at the big-league level. When guys are competing for spots, they play harder, and work harder, and subsequently win more. Players are motivated by winning, money, and playing time. The more of those factors you take out, the less motivated your players are going to be. That means stunted prospect development, and vets with bad contracts and low trade value.- 38 replies
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
Why play hard in 2015 if we're committed to 2016/2017? Some guys might not be around then. Do you think Plouffe and Dozier will be as good then as now? Perkins? Mauer? I think we've seen the damage of perpetually rebuilding. I firmly believe the team needs to learn to compete, to play with pressure, and to win. If Meyer can't out-compete Milone, how can he best Sale or Verlander in a big series? As for Santana, I promise he'd get plenty of reps at short. I would expect Rosario or Buxton to force their way in by midseason. I also don't think it's automatic that Santana has a better career than Escobar. Shouldn't we be sure about which one's actually better vs. has more potential?- 38 replies
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
I have been an advocate of Rosario in center from the first! Mientkiewicz (the old school house rock commercial still helps me spell his name) said that he was major league ready and that his bat was the best in our farm system (including Buxton and Sano). He was able to watch him day in and day out while managing him. Molitor seems to love the kid. Others more knowledgeable than me on this blog seem to think it's a given that he's sent down though.- 38 replies
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
I compared to 91 because of the last to first angle. Morris had a career year. Erickson emerged. Knoblauch was rookie of the year. Mack had a career year. Chili Davis was an animal as a switch hitting DH. It would be interesting to go position by position with that team actually... The 87 team won fewer games, but had a Cy winner Viola, and a HOFer in Blylevin at the front of the rotation along with Gaetti, Hrbek, Puckett, Smallie, and Gagne all in their respective primes.- 38 replies
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Wednesday Notes From Ft. Myers: A Speedy Loss
Jham replied to Nick Nelson's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
I still feel that a team with Santana in center and Escobar at short beats a team with Santana at short and Hicks/Schaefer/Robinson in center, but apparently that ship has sailed. Seems to me that for all the people who thought Moliter was not a FO "yes-man" he's going with the line-up the front office asked for (that Gardy fought before his firing). May got started late this spring. Meyer was on an innings limit last year and ended his season early. I do not think it would be the end of the world to have them each start in AAA. I'm much more concerned with the two of them finishing the year with the team than starting it. I for one, am not ready to give up on this team being able to compete in this division. We went worst to first in 1991 with a team not necessarily more talented than this team (going into that year). I don't think it's helpful to decide before a season that we are in "rebuild mode" after several prior years of rebuilding. We developed Plouffe, Dozier, Escobar, and Gibson, all of whom should be in their primes. Mauer may already be on the decline. We've let young players like Hicks, Santana, and Arcia take their lumps for a season and sifted out the Parmalees, Florimons, Hendriks, and Bensons. It's time for this team to start winning.- 38 replies
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